Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

[TPenglake]

you are actually admitting he is correct though, when I think we should factually reject his assertions. Korea has less incoming tourists than Vietnam and Malaysia let alone China and all of Kpop makes comparable money to just Mihoyo alone. I don't even want to compare Korean box office to Chinese, it's a total mismatch (in China's favor).

What is the purpose of soft power?

1. To get tourists to spend money in your country.
2. To make direct money from media sales.
3. To get others to sacrifice for you for free.

South Korea fails at all 3:

1. It has less tourists than even Vietnam and Malaysia which have 0 media exports
2. It makes less money from media sales like movies and games than "uncool" "lame" China.
3. There is no country in the world that would fight for Korean ideology because WTF even is Korean ideology?

I didn't delve deaper into this, since my post was already long as hell. But one would think with so called Korean culture going global, Koreans wouldn't be so insecure and antsy about protecting their traditional culture, and yet they are. As to why, just ask yourself after roughly 10 years of Korean pop culture being mainstream globally, what traditional Korean culture are people familiar with outside of Korean food?

Most Westeners don't have any interest exploring traditional Korean religion and philosophy to the extent with Japanese Shinto and Zen. Interest in learning about Korean history is minimal. Even Kpop stans don't sport traditional Korean clothing or clothing with Korean motifs to the same extent Weebs do with traditional Japanese clothes.

I don't listen to Kpop, but I did watch Kpop Demon Hunters and if that movie is in anyway accurate to Kpop outside of the English lyrics, then my impression is that its not even Koreanized intrepretations of foreign culture ala Chinese gacha games. It literally is American R&B with a Korean coat of paint. Likewise for Kdrama, they of course come in all varities, but international fans only watch the glossy romance ones where the main characters are chaebols and models, ie. total fantasies that that don't shed any light into Korean culture or society. And movies like Parasite only reveal the dark side of Korean society.

Its one thing to get people to find your media entertaining, its another to make your society look attractive. As you said yourself many people still find European society attractive even if hardly anybody watches European movies. America and Japan are the only countries that do both, whereas Korea excels in getting people to watch their stuff but fail to make their society attractive.

Sidenote: I'm not in anyway a fan of Japanese culture either, I just acknowledge that in terms of soft power they're the country for China to beat right now and its useful to take notes on what they did right outside of the help they got from America.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Singers - Nina (99 Luftballoons), Skorpion, Rammstein, Kraftwerk.

Movies: Das Boot, Downfall, Run Lola Run.

Just off the top of my head. Dunno about video games.

Their sales and international recognition are small compared to Chinese artists and movies, and most importantly, they do not portray Germany in a positive light because 2/3 of those movies are about Nazi Germany and 1 is a scifi drama that could've been set anywhere.

Compare to Wandering Earth which not only saw commercial success but portrays China in an overtly positive way.

 

[Eventine]

No, USDS Tiktok is literally just Bytedance engineers under a different label. The board is being restructured with a US majority, but it's not like they are firing everyone and restaffing from zero. So US investors get shares and profits and so on, but the actual people running the boring everyday details remain Chinese.

The board has the power to change the leadership, including the CEO and all executives. Since the US subsidiary is subject to US laws and US laws are going to become more stringent on H1bs, it is very likely that the employee base will become more American over time, just like Japanese and South Korean subsidiaries in the US.

But this doesn't matter. What matters is global executive control over the Tik Tok brand and its platform. The US can do whatever it likes to local Tik Tok but what matters is that Byte Dance retains control outside the US.

 

[4Tran]

I keep circling back to the idea that soft power is pretty meaningless unless it's backed up by hard power, and that true soft power is really just another expression of hard power to begin with. Look at Korea, which I think we can all agree is supposed to have pretty decent soft power. The ICE crackdown on that Hyundai happened, and what did that soft power gain for Korea? Did Korea's soft power give any hesitation on ICE's decision to go with the raid? Did it significantly change how Korea's workers were treated? What country out there stood up for them and condemned the American actions? Deep down, what benefit does Korea's soft power actually get when push comes to shove?

And if you think that it just means that Korean soft power is overstated, then just substitute it with any other country in the world. How well would any of them come off? Maybe some of the European countries would have garnered more support, but even if this support was more substantial, it'd probably have more to do with the image of white people being put in chains and we're not talking about soft power any more.

 

[Valentine]

I didn't delve deaper into this, since my post was already long as hell. But one would think with so called Korean culture going global, Koreans wouldn't be so insecure and antsy about protecting their traditional culture, and yet they are. As to why, just ask yourself after roughly 10 years of Korean pop culture being mainstream globally, what traditional Korean culture are people familiar with outside of Korean food?

Most Westeners don't have any interest exploring traditional Korean religion and philosophy to the extent with Japanese Shinto and Zen. Interest in learning about Korean history is minimal. Even Kpop stans don't sport traditional Korean clothing or clothing with Korean motifs to the same extent Weebs do with traditional Japanese clothes.

I don't listen to Kpop, but I did watch Kpop Demon Hunters and if that movie is in anyway accurate to Kpop outside of the English lyrics, then my impression is that its not even Koreanized intrepretations of foreign culture ala Chinese gacha games. It literally is American R&B with a Korean coat of paint. Likewise for Kdrama, they of course come in all varities, but international fans only watch the glossy romance ones where the main characters are chaebols and models, ie. total fantasies that that don't shed any light into Korean culture or society. And movies like Parasite only reveal the dark side of Korean society.

Its one thing to get people to find your media entertaining, its another to make your society look attractive. As you said yourself many people still find European society attractive even if hardly anybody watches European movies. America and Japan are the only countries that do both, whereas Korea excels in getting people to watch their stuff but fail to make their society attractive.

Sidenote: I'm not in anyway a fan of Japanese culture either, I just acknowledge that in terms of soft power they're the country for China to beat right now and its useful to take notes on what they did right outside of the help they got from America.

I agree with everything, especially the point about society, because China truly has huge problems with this, the so-called "problems of social morality" in China, due to rapid urbanization and a lag in the development of social behavior. I'm not a scientist, I'm just someone who works in the entertainment industry in China, and in my personal experience, 80% of people leave China precisely because of "low moral character" (that is, low moral character, not in the sense of being robbed on the street like in Barcelona, but in social interactions). Japan is good for its manners, but terrible for foreigners in terms of integration into society. China readily accepts foreigners, and they can become part of the community within a year, but the everyday environment is difficult for newcomers to adapt to. Slurping, spitting, loud conversations, chaotic driving, and trash don't add to the appeal. Yes, I didn’t describe Paris, they have the same problems, but China is not France, and it must somehow improve the quality of its citizens, as they did in Singapore.

 

[Eventine]

Entertainment power is not soft power. South Korea is entertaining. It does not actually have soft power.

True soft power is stuff like your language being the global language so everyone elite has to know it, having the world's best & brightest educated in your universities, people starting revolutions to imitate your system of government, etc.

South Korea doesn't have any of that.

 

[Nevermore]

I agree with everything, especially the point about society, because China truly has huge problems with this, the so-called "problems of social morality" in China, due to rapid urbanization and a lag in the development of social behavior. I'm not a scientist, I'm just someone who works in the entertainment industry in China, and in my personal experience, 80% of people leave China precisely because of "low moral character" (that is, low moral character, not in the sense of being robbed on the street like in Barcelona, but in social interactions). Japan is good for its manners, but terrible for foreigners in terms of integration into society. China readily accepts foreigners, and they can become part of the community within a year, but the everyday environment is difficult for newcomers to adapt to. Slurping, spitting, loud conversations, chaotic driving, and trash don't add to the appeal. Yes, I didn’t describe Paris, they have the same problems, but China is not France, and it must somehow improve the quality of its citizens, as they did in Singapore.

China faces regional development imbalances. While first- and second-tier cities are highly modern and clean, with residents generally possessing higher education, third- and fourth-tier cities still have significant room for improvement in public health, infrastructure development, and overall civic awareness.

 

[ComradeVortex]

Is K-pop music better than African-American music? Is it better than Latin music? No. Do African and Latino Americans have power beyond music? No. So what does "soft power" get you? Korean K-Pop stars don't even write their own music. It's written mostly by Americans.

Regarding K-Pop, i personally think it’s a very bad argument as: SEA younger generations are more than happy to consume Korean and Japanese media, much preferring it over Chinese one. Secondly, it’s all about tastes and is influenced by regional cultures and habits.
People don’t care if an American wrote it or the K-Pop idol is even Korean (for example Lisa from BlackPink is Thai). They only care about consuming the product. And sadly as old habits are hard at dying, some still see the "Made in China’ label as an off brand version of the Korean and Japanese counterparts, which is used to describe a premium product of high quality; at least in Southeast Asia.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Regarding K-Pop, i personally think it’s a very bad argument as: SEA younger generations are more than happy to consume Korean and Japanese media, much preferring it over Chinese one. Secondly, it’s all about tastes and is influenced by regional cultures and habits.
People don’t care if an American wrote it or the K-Pop idol is even Korean (for example Lisa from BlackPink is Thai). They only care about consuming the product. And sadly as old habits are hard at dying, some still see the "Made in China’ label as an off brand version of the Korean and Japanese counterparts, which is used to describe a premium product of high quality; at least in Southeast Asia.

Again… What do South Koreans get out it more than Chinese or anyone else? Black and Latino music is more popular. Are Koreans now their slaves?

 

[ComradeVortex]

Black and Latino music is more popular

In what region? I specified my reply regarding SEA. Black and Latino music in SEA is basically no-existen.