PLA Next Generation Main Battle Tank

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Does it really make HE performance worse though? British 120mm rifled HESH rounds suck in terms of accuracy vs Soviet smoothbore 125mm HE-FRAG rounds.
 

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
Does it really make HE performance worse though? British 120mm rifled HESH rounds suck in terms of accuracy vs Soviet smoothbore 125mm HE-FRAG rounds.
I'm pretty sure rifled makes HESH slightly better because it relies on how spreadout the explosive patty is to be more effective. I'm not sure about standard HE but I doubt it matters much if any but rifled is worse with higher chamber pressure as they'll wear down on the linings faster and also make gun launched AGTMs more complicated.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Soviet rounds for smoothbore guns have feathers. You don't need rifling to spin the round in flight for terminal accuracy. In fact the feathers make it more accurate at long range than rifling would.

1000001223.jpg

This is an HE-FRAG round for Soviet 125mm smoothbore. Notice the feathers in the back.

The rifled barrel will last less, you will have less useable ammo diameter for the same outer barrel diameter, and you will get worse long range accuracy if you use ammo without the feathers.
 
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enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think using a rifled gun is a big mistake. Look at what the Soviets did with the T-62. They rebored the gun eliminating the rifling and got a higher caliber smoothbore gun.

If the tank is designed for tank duels at all then I tend to agree rifled gun is a big mistake. Now I'm thinking tank duels is entirely out of the equation in the design, there're simple a plethora of means to deal with enemy tanks that it is better to design a tank focus on infantry support and survivability against all threats.

Fwiw fatty agrees with you, reading between the lines Fatty probably think the type-100 system is meh

Edit: If tank duel is still a thing there's always the Type-99B and it's possible future variants, but such a thing will not be as strategically mobile as the type-100 system, thus less relevant to China's defense requirement in the future.

China could have made a type-99B with all the bells and whistles of the type-100 but they didn't, it kind of shows what China thinks it's future priority is at
 
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enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
Dedicated ATGM carrier on the same chassis would be consistent with previous vehicle families.

Type-100 is completely modular, if we take out the turret and fill it with vls we'll get something with good magazine count. Problem is I have not a lot of faith on atgm in the age of APS. Maybe they'll use something like kinetic energy atgm, HJ-9/10/12 will not cut it in the future
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
My guess is they just used the Type 15s autoloader mechanism. Maybe with slight modifications. To speed up development.
And the Type 15 was probably supposed to be an inexpensive tank so they started with previously available ammo from Type 88.

It is messed up to use it in a much more expensive tank like this though. If true.
 

amchan

New Member
Registered Member
My guess is they just used the Type 15s autoloader mechanism. Maybe with slight modifications. To speed up development.
And the Type 15 was probably supposed to be an inexpensive tank so they started with previously available ammo from Type 88.

It is messed up to use it in a much more expensive tank like this though. If true.
They had access to 125mm guns that are anecdotally far superior to Russian and Ukrainian 125mm guns. If they chose the 105 despite that then there is probably a very good reason.
 

amchan

New Member
Registered Member
They had access to 125mm guns that are anecdotally far superior to Russian and Ukrainian 125mm guns. If they chose the 105 despite that then there is probably a very good reason.
Before someone takes this the wrong way do note that Chinese 125mm production was at a much smaller scale of production than Soviet production. Its noted in documentaries that they had a very high standard for tolerances.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The Soviet 125mm also has its issues. Because it uses two piece ammunition the ammo loading process takes slightly longer. And because ammo is not integral you cannot use long rod penetrators.
 

pikusharp1

New Member
Registered Member
Even when considering tank on tank duel which will probably be with ROC forces armed with export variant of m1 Abrams and cm11. I dont think the 105 apfsds will have issue with either one. I think they arent expecting going up against full fledge western tank anytime soon so might as well have ammo commonality with all the other 105 that are in service (which most of them will be also used against taiwan) for easier logistic.
If the tank is designed for tank duels at all then I tend to agree rifled gun is a big mistake. Now I'm thinking tank duels is entirely out of the equation in the design, there're simple a plethora of means to deal with enemy tanks that it is better to design a tank focus on infantry support and survivability against all threats.

Fwiw fatty agrees with you, reading between the lines Fatty probably think the type-100 system is meh

Edit: If tank duel is still a thing there's always the Type-99B and it's possible future variants, but such a thing will not be as strategically mobile as the type-100 system, thus less relevant to China's defense requirement in the future.

China could have made a type-99B with all the bells and whistles of the type-100 but they didn't, it kind of shows what China thinks it's future priority is at
 
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