2025 Victory Day parade thread (workup, 3rd Sept)

[tamsen_ikard]

I would say China is behind in most large scale platforms and most sophisticated engines. Whether its large transporters, bombers, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and all forms of air and naval engines. Its partly because China's industrial chain is still too new. US and Soviets have 100+ years of constant development when it comes to aviation and submarines. China doesn't have that base. China also lacks in terms engines because of that lack of time.

There is also the lack of strategic need since China mainly focuses on winning the First Island Chain war. So, it focuses more on Fighter jets, drones, missiles and so on. It puts more focus on SSK and anti-submarine warfare with drones, mines, sensors and so on. China's naval surface ships and submarines also have less endurance compared to US due to this lack of strategic need.

I would say if China had the strategic need, they would have developed a carrier, nuclear sub or a stealth bomber on par with US much earlier than they are doing now. They would have invested a lot more on this and would have managed to get it done. Its kinda like what happened with nuclear forces, hypersonic and ICBM rocketry and space technology. These are also very large systems but China has mastered them and in some ways surpasses US.

As China is more assured about its chances in the FIC it will start to develop more bigger platforms for global power projection and this gap will likely be gone.

 

[ougoah]

We should make a compilation of all the stuff they are behind in. Off the top of my head —
1) CCA.
2) Sixth Gen
3) AWAC
4) Cheap loitering munitions.
5) Laser/Microwave
6) hybrid powertrain for armored vehicles
7) hypersonic missiles

Your list is based on lots of assumption, filling in blanks and reputable observers and educated observation. Also only the things that are revealed by both sides. In this manner, let's continue your list which appears to be missing.

8) ground based radar (GaN with SiC and GaO, multistatic radars)
9) airborne radar (GaN with SiC and GaO)
10) scramjets for HCMs
11) rotating detonation engines (test flown three types, all three were public projects and all three came before the first western rotating detonation engine test flight)
12) hypersonic wind tunnels since these are quite important in the testing and design of hypersonic aircraft, missiles and engines
13) 4th generation MBTs are already in service vs US playing with upgrades to M1 to get to 3.5 gen
14) long range guided artillery and ramjet propelled artillery ordinance
15) drones, drone teaming and coordination (US cannot even do the autonomous drone swarm through an obstacle or the ten thousand drone light shows ... those displays in Vietnam and Australia were all done by a Chinese company FYI for those who think Australia and Vietnam have even a fucking fraction of that capability.
16) battery and other energy storage technology which is extremely useful for ground forces, DEWs, and even aviation.

US is ahead in:

1) nuclear propulsion
2) submarines
3) submarine propulsion (unless 09V and 09VI are using pump jets that just shows China's only recently caught up but US probably wasn't standing too still)
4) carrier operations
5) space launch capability
6) turbofan engines - especially high bypass turbofans and probably also in variable cycle turbofans given the US head start in ADVENT
7) wartime experience (no post WW2 experience against any industrial country at all or even a near peer adversary like Russia let alone a peer, industrial power adversary like China BUT it does still have war experience and there's a certain adaptability that comes with having any war experience)
8) allies
9) number of global bases
10) number of 4th gen fighters and legacy naval units.

Unknowns - too many to list. Either side could have absolute domination over the other without anyone knowing.

 

[Tomboy]

3) submarine propulsion (unless 09V and 09VI are using pump jets that just shows China's only recently caught up but US probably wasn't standing too still)

9IIIB has been using pumpjets for a while now and there is already 8 of them built

 

[ougoah]

9IIIB has been using pumpjets for a while now and there is already 8 of them built

I'm behind on the naval stuff. Didn't know this but believe this is only via reputable sources and not been sighted with pumpjets. It's not a surprise given pumpjets have been around for some time now.

 

[Ironhide]

9IIIB has been using pumpjets for a while now and there is already 8 of them built

Pump jet is not some wunderwaffe that people attribute it to be. Despite not having pump jets 885M are considered equivalent if not better than Virginia.

Once you hit 688i acoustic levels, then silencing depends heavily on the crew training and discipline which will take years I reckon to match the US/Russia. Drop a plate in the kitchen, talk very loudly and they know where you are, Tech can only get you so far. Also explains the major focus on Unmanned stuff from PLA.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

depends heavily on the crew training and discipline which will take years

Training crew to act quiet does not take years. It just takes a good set of practices which PLA can/likely have copied from US/Russia. PLA is the master of discipline.

People think training is some kind of magic that only comes after decades of experience. I don't think so. All militaries including US train barely literate teenage recruits every year for things like Carrier ops or submarine ops. There is no magic here. Just some good rules to follow that anyone can copy.

 

[Ironhide]

Training crew to act quiet does not take years. It just takes a good set of practices which PLA can/likely have copied from US/Russia. PLA is the master of discipline.

People think training is some kind of magic that only comes after decades of experience. I don't think so. All militaries including US train barely literate teenage recruits every year for things like Carrier ops or submarine ops. There is no magic here. Just some good rules to follow that anyone can copy.

Disagree from what I have heard in the sub community pla personnel are loud very loud so as much as I dislike to write it its unlikely to change within few years even with 09V in service.

I would like them to recruit retired Russian officers in 100s given the 3-4 annual sub launch rate by any means just like those British Fighter pilots.

 

[ougoah]

Training is one thing, competence is another. No reason to believe PLA don't train considerably harder than US military and hold recruits to much higher standards. Would be like comparing the two olympic teams. It's just so much easier finding the right talent in China with a population pool 4x larger than the US. Most grunts don't need to be and certainly aren't talented in any way.

The US mostly recruit the bottom of society and from migrants keen to get citizenship. No one who is a grunt in the US military is an intellectual, not even lower level officers.

Technology is where the comparison should be. Training and discipline, PLA training, standards and discipline would make the US military look like school kids.

 

[Tomboy]

Pump jet is not some wunderwaffe that people attribute it to be. Despite not having pump jets 885M are considered equivalent if not better than Virginia.

Once you hit 688i acoustic levels, then silencing depends heavily on the crew training and discipline which will take years I reckon to match the US/Russia. Drop a plate in the kitchen, talk very loudly and they know where you are, Tech can only get you so far. Also explains the major focus on Unmanned stuff from PLA.

Seawolf and Virginia class are said to be significantly quieter than 688i so there are presumably advantages of further reducing signature especially with advancing sensor technology these days. Pumpjets from what I've heard reduces cavitation at higher speeds but does not improve acoustic performance much at lower speeds.

 

[Ironhide]

PLA training, standards and discipline would make the US military look like school kids.

We just had a 052D ramming their own CCG cutter.