Whining about it doesn't change anything.
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Whining about it doesn't change anything.
What makes you think the latest WS10 isn't at parity or better than the US these days? Or are we going to forget US hasn't came up with a new engine for 20 years?
Don't you think US need to come up with a tailless supersonic aircraft first before we can even start discussing if US can build a tailless one without 3D TVC? Have you considered maybe F-22 won't need those two massive stealth killing vertical stabilizers if it had 3D TVC? At this moment China with J-36 and J-50 is the only country with tailless + 2D TVC supersonic aircraft....
Have you also considered maybe there are also explicit requirement and benifit to UCAV having lower level stealth than manned aircraft in the case of J-36 and J-50?
And the engine situation is not nearly as dire as you’re making it out to be. You’re whinging over a self esteem trophy. Clearly the level of today’s engine technology is not a fundamental inhibitor to leading edge capabilities.
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Last time I checked F-135 has reached 2260K TIT with CMC components. WS-15 has no hard data but from what we find on patents could maybe do 2200K and it isn't even in mass production yet.
While I agree I was overreacting but aeroengines technology is a major component of aircraft performance, it cannot be simply overlooked and playing it off like it doesn't matter. Also, we also have absolutely no way of actually knowing how much it affects performance or what and how much compromises were taken. With F-35's case we can see a inadequate engine can definitely cause issues down the line.
I was responding to Cute Orca's statement where is claimed 2D nozzle is important for signature enhancement and the only reason J-35 and J-20A is not using them is due to not having the technology.
Also, if your statement is true and WS-10 is the be all and end all of engines than why is WS-15 and subsequent VCE development a thing? I don't see any reason to defend or cope about China being behind in engine technology, we should just face it as it is. Also part of the reason why WS-10 is manufactured so much is literally because China is lack of a better option not really because of how good is it.
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WS-10 variants for UCAVs is pretty reasonable, and even the desire for 2D TVC or stealthier nozzles is somewhat of a cherry on the top for now, considering how high end these new large UCAVs are.
WS-10 for other aircraft is something that can be debated but is also somewhat of a waste of time, because what's going to happen is that at some point in the next couple of years WS-15 production will be at scale to meet new production needs for 5th gen and beyond and all of these complaints will be basically irrelevant.
It's just like for WS-10 back in the late 2000s, when people were debating when it would kick in and then one day all new land based SAC Flankers were powered by them.
Unironically, there isn't much to complain about, we've played this game before and know how it works.
There is a whole lot more to engine performance than TIT and a whole lot more to high turbine temps than CMCs or other materials. 2200k vs 2260k does not even translate to meaningful performance difference. These are all ballpark figures. Please do not reduce complex engineering questions to simplistic fanboy logic.
No one is “playing it off like it doesn’t matter”. What is being addressed here is your drama queen antics, which are completely detached from any substantive and informed discussion and assessment of whether current engine capabilities being fielded are sufficient or not.
The F-35’s problems are not from “inadequate engines”. They’re from lowballed design requirements for electrical power and cooling capacity. The electrical systems ended up requiring more cooling and power than the original design spec. The engine only became an “issue” because they had to run the engine harder to generate the requisite power and cooling for the electronics they were operating. If the F-35’s generator power and cooling had been specced properly from the get go they wouldn’t have had to run the engine harder. Please bother to study and understand the technical details of an anecdote before throwing it around for argumentation.
Okay keyboard warrior please cut the moralistic theatrics. You clearly don’t know much of anything about what drives engine performance and what you can conclude about the state and level of technology. The point of this forum is not to play fanboy red guard. If you want to be a cheerleader with fanboy neurosis please take it somewhere else.
(Also, my friendly advice here is to stop treating Orca like the word of god. The guy may be in the right rooms to hear juicy gossip but he clearly doesn’t understand half the stuff he opines about).
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Yeah, but US isn't making them either and probably won't for a long time to come.
Ws-10 isn't end all be all, I am saying that they shouldn't create a new engine every time they need something new. It would be stupid for UADF not to take advantage of economy of scales of WS-10 even if the capabilities are a bit weaker
The WS-10 is fine as an engine architecture. There were plans to push thrust growth for its cousin engine, the F110, to 178 kn (look up F110-EPE). The WS-15 should be a more “modern” architecture, but the WS-10’s architecture is not exactly “backwards” or inherently limiting. You can push the engine cycles harder with iterative design improvements and better materials. Tomboy is hyperventilating from a place of technical ignorance.
Please, educate me on engine technology. People here were outraged when J-20A does not have WS-15 and as far as I've seen people here talk WS-10, even in the latest iteration is likely nowhere near on par with the latest American engines. I don't see how this would not impact aircraft performance.