H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
What will happen when H20/B21 goes through Russian airspace?

I doubt this is relevant for discussion in this thread, where the combat radii illustrated the maps posted above are strictly technical.

Of course, if Russia decides to stay neutral in what would essentially be a WW3, in a direct war between China and the US, and Moscow is strictly enforcing their neutrality - The H-20s could just divert around Russia + Conduct one or two mid-air refueling(s) over the Sea of Japan for conducting strikes against CONUS.

As for the B-21 - That certainly falls outside the scope of discussion of this thread.
 
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Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
Because even when launching that far from the target, the actual transit journey to the launch point itself and back, may be in airspace which at best is monitored by adversaries or nations that can give adversaries early warning of an attack, or at worst be in airspace that is actively being patrolled and defended by adversary forces (even if one degrades those forces).
You probably don't need edge level VLO to get through there. Pacific, or even Arctic is stupid big, even it's narrow points, and RWR favours attacker. Opponent has only this many points of presense(aircraft, ships) there (if any, it's actually damn far), and it may be simpler to just make those mindful of their misconduct(J-36).
Given lack of dedicated interceptors(and their numbers), i frankly wonder if modern US is truly up to the task to intercept even bear attack with 5000 km weapons. Sector of circle of uncertainty is just immense.

Maximum VLO is quite contradictory to getting good payload to destination. Furthermore, if you actually invested into it, at some point relying on separate penetrating munitions just decreases chances of succesful strikes and possibility of successive attacks, while not increasing bomber survivability that much.
2000lb jdam and huge IRBM may hit with same warhead, but in one case you waste casing, in another - 10t of precision electronics, high tech SRF(which can only be made in 1-2 places in entire country, and got forbid something happens to that facility).

Finally, survivability is a weighted metric. Simplest place to hit bomber isn't air, it's base - and there, both are equally vulnerable.
But bomber more tilted to use of simpler munitions can be effective from way more places.

Like, B-21 can serve as example here. It god just one bay of B-2, which already wasn't exactly huge.
And all of this weighted against 2030s environment, where we must seriously consider CCAs. Which we can carry ourselves(or, say, refuel from time to time)...if they will fit.
 
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mack8

Junior Member
China has already proven that it masters every possible configuration for the H-20, be it subsonic flying wing (GJ-11, CH-7, WZ-X) or J-36 and J-50 plus their CCA offsprings for supersonic tailless configurations. If it's subsonic it will likely have a configuration similar to the former, if supersonic the latter. It seems the hints are pointing to the latter based on the recent discussion, isn't it?
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
A 30m length, 24m span planform alongside for comparison, while keeping the same IWB length options.
Needless to say it would be a bit tougher to do in such a planform, but it also depends on the depth of the main bay, which could still make it fairly viable to mount four engines and the requisite air intakes

View attachment 158952

I haven't really thought that far ahead, but for the 35m long version it would be no less than a B-2, probably a bit more in terms of weight.

Based on your illustration - I do wonder if elongating the B-2 (or B-21) to ~30/30+ meters while keeping the wingspan largely constant could do better to meet the PLAAF's needs, instead of a Hopeless Diamond design.

Namely, having the leading edge's uniform sweep angles on the H-20 become steeper than the B-2's and B-21's ~35 degrees, perhaps going for ~45 degrees (or even the GJ-11's estimated ~53-54 degrees). Of course, the angles on the adjacent sides would need to be adjusted accordingly.

However, through largely utilizing the similar flying wing design could enable a larger enough combat radius, owing to having larger wing (and lift) area, plus better flight control characteristics. Avoiding the cranked kite design should also mitigate the RCS downsides brought by said design, whilst still enabling longer IWB(s) on the H-20.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Based on your illustration - I do wonder if elongating the B-2 (or B-21) while keeping the wingspan largely constant would do better to meet the PLAAF's needs.

Namely, having the leading edge's uniform sweep angles on the H-20 become steeper than the B-2's and B-21's ~35 degrees, perhaps going for ~45 degrees (or even the GJ-11's estimated ~53-54 degrees). Of course, the angles on the adjacent sides would need to be adjusted accordingly.

However, through largely utilizing the similar flying wing design could enable a larger enough combat radius, owing to having larger wing (and lift) area, plus better flight control characteristics. Avoiding the cranked kite design should also mitigate the RCS downsides brought by said design, whilst still enabling longer IWB(s) on the H-20.

Well the configuration I drew was more to minimize the number of angles on the airframe.

I'm not sure what you mean by elongating the B-2 or B-21, but it sounds like it would be a cranked kite ala X-47B or some of the past flying wing depictions for H-20, unless you want to draw out what you mean... and apart from whether such a planform would be able to accommodate the IWBs of the sufficient length we are envisioning, it also does introduce potentially additional unnecessary angles if a X-47A-esque kite is pursued instead.
 

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
Well the configuration I drew was more to minimize the number of angles on the airframe.

I'm not sure what you mean by elongating the B-2 or B-21, but it sounds like it would be a cranked kite ala X-47B or some of the past flying wing depictions for H-20, unless you want to draw out what you mean... and apart from whether such a planform would be able to accommodate the IWBs of the sufficient length we are envisioning, it also does introduce potentially additional unnecessary angles if a X-47A-esque kite is pursued instead.
I think he means instead of having a diamond, kite or cranked arrow what if we instead just make the aircraft have a larger sweep angle, similar to a B-2 sized GJ-11. It'll still retain the perfect stealth planform while still have a central body long enough to fit weapons bay without having to deal with CoM issues and aerodynamic problems of a flying diamond.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well the configuration I drew was more to minimize the number of angles on the airframe.

I'm not sure what you mean by elongating the B-2 or B-21, but it sounds like it would be a cranked kite ala X-47B or some of the past flying wing depictions for H-20, unless you want to draw out what you mean... and apart from whether such a planform would be able to accommodate the IWBs of the sufficient length we are envisioning, it also does introduce potentially additional unnecessary angles if a X-47A-esque kite is pursued instead.

No. What I meant is basically stretching the B-2/B-21's length and keeping the wingspan largely the same, rather than turning it into a cranked kite configuration. Namely, resulting in the H-20 having steeper but uniform leading edge sweep angles than the B-2/B-21.

I think he means instead of having a diamond, kite or cranked arrow what if we instead just make the aircraft have a larger sweep angle, similar to a B-2 sized GJ-11. It'll still retain the perfect stealth planform while still have a central body long enough to fit weapons bay without having to deal with CoM issues and aerodynamic problems of a flying diamond.

Yes, that's what I meant.
 
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