The War in the Ukraine

[ger_mark]

These terms look like complete defeat for Russia. I don't get why Russia would accept it unless they are in deep trouble internally that is forcing Putin to give up.

Well putin can argue that he won the war because he conquered some land and gained a few mln population to safe his face at home.
But the price will be immense. The main goal of the war, to make ukraine a Russian proxy state again, or at least neutral, has totally failed.

Source?

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And a day before that European leaders suddenly shifted their opinion upon sending European troops inside Ukraine.

 

[vincent]

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And a day before that European leaders suddenly shifted their opinion upon sending European troops inside Ukraine.

meaningless. Can’t believe anything that comes out of Trump’s mouth.

 

[zyklon]

This obviously wasn't created by someone completely neutral (so don't scream at me for the semantics), but it does visualize some potential scenarios on what a ceasefire or peace could look like.

 

[gelgoog]

The thing is annexation of Ukraine was never a war goal. Putin stated the war goals when they went into Ukraine. Neutralization, demilitarization, and de-nazification.

Ukraine must stop trying to join any military alliances, their armed forces must relinquish all their heavy weapons, the army size must shrink, the Russian language and Orthodox faith must be given equal legal footing, and the glorification of genocidal Nazi collaborators like Stepan Bandera must cease.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

The thing is annexation of Ukraine was never a war goal. Putin stated the war goals when they went into Ukraine. Neutralization, demilitarization, and de-nazification.

Ukraine must stop trying to join any military alliances, their armed forces must relinquish all their heavy weapons, the Army size must shrink, the Russian language and Orthodox faith must be given equal legal footing, and the glorification of genocidal Nazi collaborators like Stepan Bandera must cease.

The goal was regime change, which failed. The goal is still regime change. Continue fighting until Ukraine's current govt collapses. All these deals about Ukraine not joining Nato does not mean much cause they can join whenever they find the right time and they feel Russia is too weak to start a war again.

Giving lip service to Russian language in the constitution will not mean much if the general population attacks anyone speaking Russian. They cannot deal with soft Ban.

Overall, Russia still loses if it stops the war now. The only way to have any type of victory is to capture all of Ukraine on east side of Dnieper and even Odessa.

 

[gelgoog]

Giving lip service to Russian language in the constitution will not mean much if the general population attacks anyone speaking Russian. They cannot deal with soft Ban.

There are ways of achieving this. For example Russia can permanently station troops in Ukraine to enforce the peace terms like they did in Finland or East Germany after WW2.

Overall, Russia still loses if it stops the war now. The only way to have any type of victory is to capture all of Ukraine on east side of Dnieper and even Odessa.

Maybe. But capture of territory is still not an official Russian war goal.

It sure was convenient to make the Sea of Azov an internal Russian lake but it need not have happened if the Ukrainians weren't so stubborn in the first place. Even as late as the Istanbul agreements it could have been prevented.

It is kind of funny reading these claims about how the Russian economy is about to collapse for three years now. I see no evidence Russia cannot continue this war pretty much indefinitively.

 

[Temstar]

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And a day before that European leaders suddenly shifted their opinion upon sending European troops inside Ukraine.

On that note:

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Too stretched doing what though?

 

[gelgoog]

Stretched because the Germans have 5000 troops in the Baltic. Laughable.

 

[ger_mark]

Bundeswehr has barely enough equipment to fully equip these 5k in Baltic. It will take some years until it's fully equipped again.

On that note:

Too stretched doing what though?

For sending troops into Ukraine offcouse.

 

[zhejang]

These terms look like complete defeat for Russia. I don't get why Russia would accept it unless they are in deep trouble internally that is forcing Putin to give up.

this isn’t a complete deal yet, there is many things that will get tossed and added, there is no reason to believe Russia will accept those terms.