Chinese military exports to other countries
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Sure its good but calling F-22/F-35/J-20/J-35's aerodynamics a generation behind is a complete joke. Its really no better than anything that isn't achievable by Chinese or American technology if they for some reason still decides to build not-so-stealthy LO fighters.
Well they are.
The Su-27 aerodynamics were also a generation ahead of the F-15.
The US chose the least advanced airframe when they picked the YF-22 over the YF-23 anyway. And the X-35 is even simpler if you ignore the VTOL.
The Su-57 has 3D engine TVC, all moving tail, and LEVCONs. It is more sophisticated an airframe as simple as that.
The Su-27 aerodynamics were also a generation ahead of the F-15.
The US chose the least advanced airframe when they picked the YF-22 over the YF-23 anyway. And the X-35 is even simpler if you ignore the VTOL.
The Su-57 has 3D engine TVC, all moving tail, and LEVCONs. It is more sophisticated an airframe as simple as that.
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???? Getting a fully stealth aircraft to fly better than older aircraft that wasn't designed for stealth is far more of a challenge than making a barely stealthy aircraft to fly better. Its as simple as that, and no amount of Russian Stronk cope can make the Su-57 a peer competitor to American and Chinese 5th gens in real combat conditions and overall sophistication.
PS: All moving tail means nothing, J-20 has it, the only thing interesting about Su-57 is LEVCONs and even the Indians can make it work.
The Su-57 has more moving surfaces than any of those aircraft. It is more complicated to design, simulate, and make the fly by wire system for it.
But that likely also comes at extra cost and less reliability than the J-35 or J-20 designs.
Which is why there are so few Su-57 aircraft to begin with.
Quantity has a quality all its own.
But that likely also comes at extra cost and less reliability than the J-35 or J-20 designs.
Which is why there are so few Su-57 aircraft to begin with.
Quantity has a quality all its own.
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Plus, Russians are passing around (offering) Su-57 as it was a 1990s hooker from Yekaterinburg, giving Indians full "source code" and even offering the Su-57 to Turkey. Russia already fvcked up by selling S-400 to Turkey.
Then they're dreaming about Su-75 which is just a fantasy, the same way Russian "naval arm with Su-57K" is pure fantasy juice.
Reminds me of the so-called "best tank in the world" T-14 Armata which Russians said they would have about 2.300 units ready by 2020. Russian "Arjun" equivalent.
At this point, I am not joking: Tejas Saar-versions are more promising than fantasy called Su-75 and Su-57K along with Russian "naval arm".
Don't let me even start with useless MiG-35 fighter that they produced only 6 of so far - and their "cruiser" fantasy Leader and "Super Gorshkov" destroyers - and lets not forget "Shtorm" aircraft carrier.
If Russia doesn't want Chinese J-35 in the future, who cares. Even better for China. More numbers for China. Russia can just continue with its stupid Su-34 and Su-35 production - and maybe MiG-35 too.
The fact that Russia offers desperately their "best" (Su-57) to India, Turkey, etc tells everything you need to know. And other way around: the fact that China gives total fvck about Su-57 and does NOT want Su-57 at all.
They are offering the Su-57E with 177S engine at the time Su-57M with AL-51 is about to come out. They aren't dumb.
Russia has made a lot of whole new weapon systems since the Soviet collapse. Su-57, Yak-130, S-350, Buk-M3, Pantsir, Project 22350, 20380/5, 955A, 885M, Iskander, Kinzhal, Zircon, etc.
Russia has made a lot of whole new weapon systems since the Soviet collapse. Su-57, Yak-130, S-350, Buk-M3, Pantsir, Project 22350, 20380/5, 955A, 885M, Iskander, Kinzhal, Zircon, etc.
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The leadership is actually dumb. Going to war against whole NATO structure whilst having less Flankers (Su-30) and T-90 tanks than India which you sold these two platforms over the years, topped with having an aircraft carrier that is sucking money and resources and rusting away whilst selling former Kiev-class Vikramaditya to India as well - delivered by 2013. Kind of ironic when you think of what happened just a few months later in Ukraine, starting from 2014.
Then Russian leadership trusted France and wanted their Mistrals, but Russia got screwed over with that as well. Still no Mistral-like ships in sight until 2029 or 2030.
Then Russia lost Libya in 2011, and right now we have a pro-Turkey regime in Tripoli.
You can top up all of this with quite recent developments which led to Russia losing essentially Armenia to Turkey and Azeris - or even Hindutvas since they're delivering crappy weapons to Yerevan more so than Russia.
Then the big icing on the cake: losing Syria after 9 years where pro-Russians always told us that Russia and former SyAA are "grinding down terrorists" in Syria. How did that turn out after 9 years by the way with Kinzal, and Iskander and having two naval bases in Syria as well? Along with air bases too. So what's the result?
The same arguments we are hearing now, that Russia allegedly is "grinding down" Ukraine, the same way you took back so so so much territory in Syria after 2015 with former SyAA (pro-Assad) forces. Again, how did that go over the past few months, since December 2024?
Another problem with the Russian arsenal is that it is still relying heavily on Soviet platform. For example, Kinzhal is carried by Soviet stuff such as Tu-22M3 and MiG-31K.
Buk-3 is litereally upgrade of previous Buk from the USSR era.
Yes, Russia has 3 active Project 22350 (Gorskhov class) and the 4th might be ready in either 2026 or 2027. What is Russia going to do with 3 or (soon 4) of these against surface forces of U.S. and NATO Pact Brutality in the Baltic, Atlantic, Mediterranean, even part of the Black Sea and around Alaska?
How many Steregushchiy are active out there, around 10? And another 2 Gremyashchiy?
And most of nuclear powered submarines hails from the USSR era. So Russia is not able to replace them 1 by 1. Not even close.
And yes, again to Russia leadership being stupid, as many times before, most notably being retarded between 1989 - 1991 and letting itself be screwed over by a massive Demo-Crazy Strap-On, and then relying still on Ukrainian engines for these corvettes and frigates, even after 2014. Which is in essence why you have this situation today, because USSR let itself be screwed between 1989 - 1991.
No one cares about handful of Su-57M with this new AL-51 engine. It is as relevant as having about 6 MiG-35 right now againt what Russia is facing now and will face over the years to come.
"Leader" fantasy. "Super Gorskhov" fantasy. "Shtorm" fantasy. "PAK-DA" fantasy. "Su-75" fantasy and "T-14" fantasy having 2.300 units by 2020, which was 5 years ago.
If the Russians need to escort their cargo ships, it makes little difference whether they use a Frigate or a Destroyer.
In peacetime, it doesn't matter what sort of ship you have. Even a coast guard ship would be adequate.
In a wartime scenario, isolated Russian Frigates or Destroyers wouldn't survive for long without air power.
It is the credibility of chief members of this forum that is in tatters. The F-35 concept and its doppelgangers that are sprouting like mushrooms nowadays are not modern in the least but ripped straight from the nineties. It is a mathematical fact.
Ladies, I am truly sorry that mentioning obvious cases of compulsive kleptomania makes some of you red in the face and combative for some reason.
The Su-33 clone with the Su-35 cloned radome flying from aboard the Varyag clone staffed by US Navy color-coded clones, gesturing in an overly synchronized K-pop fashion like they're acting in Tam Gwizhe Top Clone movie and urging everyone to shake their hands happily for the camera on command and stop noticing too many coincidences so remarkably concentrated in a single place. It is all convergent evolution and purely indigenous design choices by domestic genuises they say.
Whenever the highly respected Ma Jack businessmen crawl all over a Soviet prototype in Saki or a Lockheed brochure from 1990 another cultural and technical revolution occurs shortly thereafter.
The United States et al. have taken note and will start shopping for whatever they need openly and unapologetically. I am sure the Ma Jacks of the world would understand, being seasoned innovators themselves, and won't come with corporate lawyers making a scene and crying about such trivial things as integrity or legality which they trampled underfoot for years with a crooked smile when it suited them.
Whenever I go to a military forum to banter with the lads, the last experts I wish to meet are Reddit dykes, thank you very much.