Chinese air to air missiles

[Blitzo]

He is probably referring to the unspoken tradition in PLAAF where a new fighter has not truly achieved maturity until it fired unguided rockets.

If he is, then I'm getting really tired of people trying to be witty in flagship threads, because not only has he created a situation where it's unclear if he is being serious or not that's taken up 3-4 posts, but it also implies that it's appropriate for people to make unsolicited joke posts to begin with in flagship threads (in this case, the only impetus for the joke is the F-15E carrying multiple rocket pods with laser guided rockets -- and manned fighter aircraft with laser guided rockets is actually a rather credible and cost effective way of engaging low cost suicide drones!)

 

[MiraiAAA]

Relax, it's a claim nothing more or less. But what's interesting is his more realistic claim that the J-35A will be delivered by the end of this year or early next year. Pakistani pilots and groundcrew are already training in China.

A more pragmatic option for PAF than buying 5th gen fighters would be to update AWACS and SAMs, J-10CE and JF-17 block3 were both advanced enough before India got 5th gen fighters.

 

[Black Wolf]

A more pragmatic option for PAF than buying 5th gen fighters would be to update AWACS and SAMs, J-10CE and JF-17 block3 were both advanced enough before India got 5th gen fighters.

The AWACS side is already quite robust for the PAF. With the addition of 4 Erieye ER systems a couple of years ago, the total fleet now stands at 10 (or even 12, according to some claims). These upgraded platforms provide 360° coverage with detection ranges between 450–650 km, significantly enhancing situational awareness. Complementing this is the Blinders squadron (4 - 6 DA-20s) equipped for EW, ECM, and ESM roles working in coordination with Link-16 and Link-17 data links, which ensures a well-integrated battlespace picture.

Additionally, there are persistent rumors that the previously retired or grounded 4 ZDK-03 AWACS have been sent to China for potential upgrades to KJ-500 or even KJ-700 standards. While unconfirmed, such a move if true would further enhance PAF’s airborne surveillance and battle management capabilities.

Given that, the real area needing attention is the SAM network. Current systems may require reevaluation, and investment in more advanced, layered air defense solutions would be critical to effectively counter future threats, especially in the face of 5th-gen capabilities across the border.

 

[Godswill]

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on Twitter is claiming that according to "his sources", the PL-16:
1. Has a smaller diameter than that of PL-15's and next gen fighters can carry more of them in its IWBs.
2. Can handle BVR, WVR and anti-radiation missions.
3. Has a dual-mode seeker with dual-band radar and IR imaging.
4. Improved dual-pulse engine with a TVC nozzle.
5. Range exceeding 300kms, maximum speed exceeding Mach 5. (Obviously just speculation)

We already know that the PL-16 is going to be an improvement over its predecessor, but I'm wondering if some of these claims here are plausible instead of being complete bogus. Have any of y'all heard similar things from top PLA watchers?

If points 2 and 3 are true, then the PLA might be looking to merge the PL-10's mission profile into a multirole missile instead. Could explain why there aren't side IWBs for the J-XDS.

If the skinny PL-16 can achieve 300km range. Why PL-17 needs to be this huge to achieve 400km range. So I'm skeptical.

 

[qwerty3173]

If the skinny PL-16 can achieve 300km range. Why PL-17 needs to be this huge to achieve 400km range. So I'm skeptical.

PL-17: >500km range. Not to mention that the PL-17 program entered service more than 5 years earlier.

 

[Godswill]

This is what the PL-17 does.
The J-36 is meant to fly high which means it’s shooting while looking down. Makes you wonder if they can get extended range shot even with PL-15/16s.

A few kilometer higher in altitude is small angle if the distance is over 100km, so it really doesn't look down when pointing directly at target aircraft. Long range AAM usually ascends to very high altitude after launch to reduce drag, so no point in look down while launching, unless to reduce radar signal when opening the weapon bay door.

 

[plawolf]

One potential avenue of development to get a slimmer missile with greater range for more IWB carriage could be to take better advantage of the depth of the IWBs and go the old British Electric Lightening fighter design of stacking two rocket engines vertically. That way you could potentially get almost double the propellant for the same horizontal footprint.

With such a design, you could theoretically get a triple or even quad burn missile for maximum range and endgame energy.

Further range improvements could potentially be leveraged via a separation and ejection system for the spent lower propellant section if that works out as beneficial. Which also gives rise to the possibility of a modular missile system where you can add or remove the secondary propellant sections based on mission requirements.

 

[Jason_]

Why?

If you are intercepting aerial targets with laser guided rockets, then chances are those aerial targets are low end suicide drones, and there's no particular need for maintaining signature reduction so external carriage should work fine. Heck there's no need for a J-20 for that mission; any 4/4.5th gen aircraft could work.

While any 4/4.5 gen would work, there will be ~1000 J-20s by the end of the decade, and the CAP mission will be disproportionately performed by the J-20. So the first available and most numerous aircraft in theater will likely be a J-20. Enhancing J-20's magazine depth against low end threats makes a lot of sense.

Also, a "pure" suicide drone attack is only done by low capability attackers. A high end attacker would integrate suicide drone as a part of a large strike package including stealth fighters and bombers, CCAs, cruise missiles, EW escort, etc. So stealth will be very useful and expand the possible patrol area.

 

[Blitzo]

While any 4/4.5 gen would work, there will be ~1000 J-20s by the end of the decade, and the CAP mission will be disproportionately performed by the J-20. So the first available and most numerous aircraft in theater will likely be a J-20. Enhancing J-20's magazine depth against low end threats makes a lot of sense.

Also, a "pure" suicide drone attack is only done by low capability attackers. A high end attacker would integrate suicide drone as a part of a large strike package including stealth fighters and bombers, CCAs, cruise missiles, EW escort, etc. So stealth will be very useful and expand the possible patrol area.

Again, even if we wanted J-20s to be able to do low end CAP, why would that require J-20 to carry rocket pods internally in any capacity, especially the side weapons bays? It has plentiful external stations to carry multiple rocket pods per pylon, and if it required signature reduction as part of its CAP then it shouldn't have a loadout for a low end, "counter suicide drone" mission to begin with.

And chances are by the time that there are no longer any meaningful fleet of 4/4.5th gen jets for low end CAP work, there would be much more reliable ways to defend against low end suicide drones anyhow.


Overall the question that Kejora asked was at best misguided, at worst it was a deliberate joke.


Even if we entertained the idea of "giving J-20 a low signature way of employing rocket pods for countering low end suicide drones" there are way more logical means than literally carrying rocket pods in the weapons bays, which would require rather significant structural modifications and aerodynamic testing due to clearance/proximity issues.

Developing a low signature rocket pod to be carried externally would arguably be much more logical... If one wanted to pursue such a ridiculous idea of a "low signature/stealthy counter-suicide-dronw" mission to begin with.

 

[Gloire_bb]

(in this case, the only impetus for the joke is the F-15E carrying multiple rocket pods with laser guided rockets -- and manned fighter aircraft with laser guided rockets is actually a rather credible and cost effective way of engaging low cost suicide drones!)

Truth to be told, I now personally consider lack of good way for such option to be a major and unexpected drawback of 5/6 gen fighter aircraft. CCAs won't be of much help here as well.
This direction of 4th gen extended utility was completely unexpected.