J-20... The New Generation Fighter
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Re: New Generation Fighter
FWS-13 is just a clone of RD-33，or rather a domestic derivative engine.
No need to take that long.
FWS-13 is just a clone of RD-33，or rather a domestic derivative engine.
Re: New Generation Fighter
you better cross check your sources,there's one thing to remember most of sources from chinese website turn out to be unreliable,to date there is no official news about the engine.
other problem is that most of chinese website,tend to have wildly optimistic or expect too much ,which often lead to exaggeration what they saw , heard or read. good example, is that I notice there's a blogger in China claim that J-11B is a "stealth aircraft"!! J-10B technological a par to F-35!!!!
the hard reality is that China still 3 decade behind US.
you better cross check your sources,there's one thing to remember most of sources from chinese website turn out to be unreliable,to date there is no official news about the engine.
other problem is that most of chinese website,tend to have wildly optimistic or expect too much ,which often lead to exaggeration what they saw , heard or read. good example, is that I notice there's a blogger in China claim that J-11B is a "stealth aircraft"!! J-10B technological a par to F-35!!!!
the hard reality is that China still 3 decade behind US.
Re: New Generation Fighter
Oh really? Every country has wildly optimistic bloggers, but we can all manage to sift the wheat from the chaff by, primarily, identifying which bloggers are more credible over time and whether they tend to be more optimistic or pessimistic.
But of course, that's impossible to do through tainted lenses now, is it?
3 decades behind, don't make me laugh. So you think China won't be able to make a F-35 like aircraft until 2045? You think that J-10A is only on par with '70s era F-16? Or whenever the JXX is inducted it'll only be equivalent of a late '80s F-15?
If you can prove those statements, then be my guest. If not, then quit making ridiculous and arbitrary claims.
Oh really? Every country has wildly optimistic bloggers, but we can all manage to sift the wheat from the chaff by, primarily, identifying which bloggers are more credible over time and whether they tend to be more optimistic or pessimistic.
But of course, that's impossible to do through tainted lenses now, is it?
3 decades behind, don't make me laugh. So you think China won't be able to make a F-35 like aircraft until 2045? You think that J-10A is only on par with '70s era F-16? Or whenever the JXX is inducted it'll only be equivalent of a late '80s F-15?
If you can prove those statements, then be my guest. If not, then quit making ridiculous and arbitrary claims.
Re: New Generation Fighter
Realistically speaking China is 30 years behind the US. While it may not take as long for China to catch up to the US in terms of fielded technology, the US is already testing technology for 6th and 7th generation platforms while China is still focused on catching up.
Re: New Generation Fighter
Maya's given a chart which seems official enough, giving more ground to his claim that WS-15 is a TW 10:1 turbofan rather than the WS-9 replacement thing you have going on... If the J-XX engine in the end isn't designated WS-15, and the designation does go to a WS-9 replacement then people will prolly pay your posts much more attention.
But right now I'd agree with dingyibvs...
(There are obviously those ridiculous claims, like china's got a nuclear powered bomber under development, or taht it already has three stealth fighters in operation, or they have a 6th generation figher in flight testing - you obviously need to judge for yourself what's reliable and what's not. OR you trust the assessments of other, reliable, credible individuals)
but there are also some sources and posters which give wildly low assessments, and expect too little - without mentioning any names of course...
Maya's given a chart which seems official enough, giving more ground to his claim that WS-15 is a TW 10:1 turbofan rather than the WS-9 replacement thing you have going on... If the J-XX engine in the end isn't designated WS-15, and the designation does go to a WS-9 replacement then people will prolly pay your posts much more attention.
But right now I'd agree with dingyibvs...
(There are obviously those ridiculous claims, like china's got a nuclear powered bomber under development, or taht it already has three stealth fighters in operation, or they have a 6th generation figher in flight testing - you obviously need to judge for yourself what's reliable and what's not. OR you trust the assessments of other, reliable, credible individuals)
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Re: New Generation Fighter
But he quotes kanwa quite often, so it's kinda not unexpected... : /
I think that's probably true - but (correct me if I'm wrong), from my impression Challenge's inference was exactly that (to quote dingyibvs); "China won't be able to make a F-35 like aircraft until 2045".
But he quotes kanwa quite often, so it's kinda not unexpected... : /
Re: New Generation Fighter
I would agree that saying that China won't be able to put a F-35 like aircraft into production until 2045 is somewhat out there, but the essence of the statement is correct. The F-35 was in planning from the mid 90s and the first demonstrator flew in 2000. Would it be reasonable to say that China could field a F-35 level aircraft in 2030? If so, the statement that China is 30 years behind the US is a correct assessment.
Depends on what you mean by F-35 like aircraft though. In terms of stealth? The F-35 isn't more advanced than the F-22. In terms of electronics? STOVL? Engines? It's important to keep in mind that how advanced an aircraft is isn't just dependent on how advanced its components are, but how advanced the component integration is. In that sense, a F-35 may be outside of China's range for the next thirty years.
I would agree that saying that China won't be able to put a F-35 like aircraft into production until 2045 is somewhat out there, but the essence of the statement is correct. The F-35 was in planning from the mid 90s and the first demonstrator flew in 2000. Would it be reasonable to say that China could field a F-35 level aircraft in 2030? If so, the statement that China is 30 years behind the US is a correct assessment.
Re: New Generation Fighter
A couple things:
1) Are you suggesting that China tends to field newer technology relative to its breadth of technology than the U.S.? Because if not, then the difference in fielded technology should be a pretty good indicator of the difference in current technology development, right?
2) What would you say was the difference in years between Chinese aircraft industry and the U.S. one in the early '90s before China began modernizing its airforce starting with the TOT of Su-27's? I'd say that since China was pretty good at building J-8's, a '60s technology, that they'd be about 30 years behind. So are you saying that after almost 20 years, China still hasn't caught up a bit? I'd say the gap is closer to 20 years now. The F-22 achieved IOC around 2003, and I'd expect the JXX to achieve IOC at the latest around 2023.
A couple things:
1) Are you suggesting that China tends to field newer technology relative to its breadth of technology than the U.S.? Because if not, then the difference in fielded technology should be a pretty good indicator of the difference in current technology development, right?
2) What would you say was the difference in years between Chinese aircraft industry and the U.S. one in the early '90s before China began modernizing its airforce starting with the TOT of Su-27's? I'd say that since China was pretty good at building J-8's, a '60s technology, that they'd be about 30 years behind. So are you saying that after almost 20 years, China still hasn't caught up a bit? I'd say the gap is closer to 20 years now. The F-22 achieved IOC around 2003, and I'd expect the JXX to achieve IOC at the latest around 2023.
Re: New Generation Fighter
If we just say that "China won't field a plane generally equivalent to the F-35A in performance until 2045..." well that's just a bit ridiculous - by then we'll probably start seeing 6th gen fighters. But I'm getting off topic here.
Quickly, using dingyibvs's other examples, and by using challenge's claim that China is 30 years behind the US, the idea that J-10 is equivalent to a 70's F-16 or that J-XX will be equivalent to late 80's F-15 is utterly ridiculous. The mere statement that China is 30 freaking years is frankly a bit absurd imho...
EDIT: "The F-22 achieved IOC around 2003, and I'd expect the JXX to achieve IOC at the latest around 2023." - and I personally think that'd be the worst case scenario - the PLAAF general said J-XX'd enter service in 2017-2019, and based on the J-10 scheduale, then IOC would be around that time.
I can see where you're coming from, but one can also say that an F-35 like aircraft is one common airframe capable of normal take off landings, carrier take off landings, and STOVL, and also planned to be distributed in large numbers to allied countries - the interpretation of "F-35 like aircraft" is... a matter of interpretation (lol) and has to end somewhere.
If we just say that "China won't field a plane generally equivalent to the F-35A in performance until 2045..." well that's just a bit ridiculous - by then we'll probably start seeing 6th gen fighters. But I'm getting off topic here.
Quickly, using dingyibvs's other examples, and by using challenge's claim that China is 30 years behind the US, the idea that J-10 is equivalent to a 70's F-16 or that J-XX will be equivalent to late 80's F-15 is utterly ridiculous. The mere statement that China is 30 freaking years is frankly a bit absurd imho...
EDIT: "The F-22 achieved IOC around 2003, and I'd expect the JXX to achieve IOC at the latest around 2023." - and I personally think that'd be the worst case scenario - the PLAAF general said J-XX'd enter service in 2017-2019, and based on the J-10 scheduale, then IOC would be around that time.
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