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pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
I would respectfully disagree but arguing that Chinese "liberals" are cunning and happen to he a powerful minority occupying well-paid positions in China's economy. They tend to be in the finance and real estate sectors, while some of them are intellectual teaching in party schools and political science/economic professors in universities (which used to be where lots of liberals use their Party memberships to hide their beliefs). It is true that they are in the minority in China, but the past 40 years of economic development gave them plenty of opportunities to occupy influential positions in trade, property, and academic positions to spread their influence. You can think of them as many Yeltsin gangs within China's political-economic structure. One last thing, they tend to send their families abroad, so just in case they get in trouble (due to corruption, political struggle, etc.), they can always move abroad. Therefore, they have little to fear when opposing the CCP. They are much more affluent and well-connected then Joe average PRC citizens. Many of them are party members, sons and daughters of high-ranking officials, and could have bought their business influence through nepotism/kleptocracy/corrupt connections. Their power inevitably grew out of China's market economic reform (thus, it is unwise to eliminate them or completely shut them up), but the CCP has so far prevent them from setting the dominant narrative and agenda.

To recap, these individuals aren't ideologically "liberal", "democratic", or "pluralistic" by heart. In fact, they are most social darwinian and outwardly abrasive folks you can find among mankind (it is every difficult to have a conversation with them since they always seek to lecture you about how legitimate they are and superior to other Chinese), but liberalism (especially if the CCP were to undergo a chaotic collapse) could at least legalize their ill-gotten wealth and corrupt dealings.

If one day China were to become a liberal democracy, I honestly do not see much hope in these folks becoming an honest opposition beneficial to the country's democratization. These folks are more than happy to collude with foreign capital to buy up China's national assets are below-market price and hollowing out the country (like Russia in 1990s), turning the country into another semi colony.


This big misconception about liberal and Yeltsin. Infact Yeltsin empowered the people who will shaped today Russia much differently than all other ex communist countries which are regarded failure by those who matter. alot of things i can write but i am not writing. In 80s the duration of Saudi Ministers and Ambassadors were measured in decades not years on there posts and that give them insights and strategic thinking that no one else had like Saudi Prince flying in Space Shuttle and that Arab satellite system information control and all the latest R&D especially in Airpower as Arabs were the biggest export buyers . All that thought process and Royal culture was transferred to Russian muslims and they have very effectively implemented the learnings. when Arabs built cities in desert Russian built cities at higher elevation but still with that Desert vibe. This cannot happen if they dont have sense of gratitude. He was the head of Lipetsk combat training of Soviet/Russian Airforce but these people wanted to send first flight in direction of Saudis. and what ever you see in Ukraine is incarnation of it in modern form and they are observing it. when a heavier missiles is launch it usually drops and than fire up but this missile from MIG31 is in straight line fully covered in white glow. MIG31 not small aircraft.
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The first Hero of Russia (posthumously) was the head of the Lipetsk center for combat training and retraining of flight personnel, Aviation Major General Sulambek Oskanov. The plane will make its first flight on Wednesday carrying Hajj pilgrims

On March 20, 1992, the Supreme Council of the Russian Federation established the title of Hero of the Russian Federation and the insignia - the Gold Star medal


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Chevalier

Major
Registered Member
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I remember back in the 90s being lectured by white westerners how “saving face” was a uniquely Chinese custom and that China must westernise.

The US is evidently so weak now that they need to ask its enemies for symbolic victories to show the people at home. Seems like Iran in SCO and BRICS has emboldened anti U.S. elements not unlike the U.S. emboldening Filipino slaves against China.

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that freedom of speech in the west truly is something, especially ,t for vassal nations of the anglosphere
 

supercat

Colonel
If one day China were to become a liberal democracy, I honestly do not see much hope in these folks becoming an honest opposition beneficial to the country's democratization. These folks are more than happy to collude with foreign capital to buy up China's national assets are below-market price and hollowing out the country (like Russia in 1990s), turning the country into another semi colony.
That's why China has to be very careful when they open up their financial market to foreign companies. There are 5th columnists waiting in the wings to sell off Chinese national assets cheaply.

Can't cope with the fact that China is safe and clean? Just fabricate another moronic tall tale about China's nonexistent "social credit score".
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's why China has to be very careful when they open up their financial market to foreign companies. There are 5th columnists waiting in the wings to sell off Chinese national assets cheaply.
To be honest, I am quite pessimistic. It is hard to predict what will come after Xi. Xi's problems are all well-known, so I am not going to repeat them here, but he somehow managed to prevent the ship from sinking. The judgement day for China as a whole could arrive on the day he retires or passes away in office. He has concentrated so much power in his own hands that his sudden disappearance could lead to lots of uncertainty. That's when you see groups like Shanghai-based financial fat cats (often sons and daughters of well-connected party elites), "liberal" intellectuals, journalists, radical feminists, and other so-called "liberals" within the CCP ganging up against the Xi establishment currently comprised of the military industrial complex, scientists, telecommunication giants, other national security organs, etc. There will likely be a country-wide power struggle and very chaotic street-level violence like Hong Kong in 2019, as both sides (or multiple sides) try to stir-up protesters on their behalf. And of course, you will surely have foreign interventions in the forms of back money and intelligence operations. Even fools would know that the financial fat cats in China would collude with foreign intelligence services and MNCs to limit the power of the CCP to point where those fat cats could continue to exploit the cheap labour in China whilst not paying their tax. God know what would happen when it all ends.

On the side note, something extremely sick is going on with people's values in China nowadays:
1. Middle class Chinese are now spending massive amount of money to try to cross into the U.S. via Mexico, risking everything despite absolutely no guarantee of being able to find a job in the U.S.
2. 996 work culture persists despite labor law clearly making it illegal. With the 996 work culture, employees are burnt out and have no family time at all. In other words, both employers and employees are violating the labor laws just to squeeze the last bits of pennies in cut-throat competitions. Current labour laws are literally impossible to implement since EVERYONE is violating them.
3. Toxic competition and back stabbings in both academic and professional settings called 内卷.
4. Urban young Chinese women (mostly daughters of well-to-do elites) refuse to marry and have babies with Chinese men. When they marry foreign men, they demand no bride price, but when approach by their Chinese counterparts, they demand exorbitant bride price in the name of "feminism". This social phenomenon (call it gender war, if you like) is arguably impossible to fix.
5. While the government hopes to resuscitate the collapsing birth rate, there are little mechanism in place to support pregnant women, and single mothers and fathers. Of course this can relatively easy to fix by increasing welfare coverage.
6. All of these problems, along with others, are making people extremely social darwinian in their beliefs. If you lose your job or your company get driven out of business, nobody would sympathize with you since it is "natural selection" of the fittest.
7. The richest people all try to transfer their assets abroad with the hope to tax avoidance. If you think American companies and Wall Street are kings of tax avoidance, you need to travel to Shanghai and actually talk to Shanghai business elites.

All of them are China's persistent vulnerabilities. Should China undergo democratic transitions, these issues could easily derail the transition and turn the country upside down.
 
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