JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[tphuang]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

people are still talking about M53 on FC-1? It's not going to happen. There is only so much space designed for the engine. The dimension of M53 and RD-33 simply don't match that well.

 

[Munir]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

people are still talking about M53 on FC-1? It's not going to happen. There is only so much space designed for the engine. The dimension of M53 and RD-33 simply don't match that well.

It can happen... Just check out the Mig27 refitted with AL31... You just look at a big plane with a small engine... Very funny but still possible. Whether they go for M53? There seems to be a visit to Pakistan by mr Chirac and they will talk about lots of defence deals... You never know. People said a lot of things but the reality seems to be chaotic so now and then. So we will see in a few months.

Well, I must not forget the pic otherwise people think I am crazy...

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[SteelBird]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Yes, people would... and congratulation! Clicking the link said: "image not found!"

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

It can happen... Just check out the Mig27 refitted with AL31... You just look at a big plane with a small engine... Very funny but still possible. Whether they go for M53? There seems to be a visit to Pakistan by mr Chirac and they will talk about lots of defence deals... You never know. People said a lot of things but the reality seems to be chaotic so now and then. So we will see in a few months.

Well, I must not forget the pic otherwise people think I am crazy...

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Well its not such a big deal that Mr. Chirac coming to Pakistan now that he's been out of office for two years.

 

[tphuang]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

It can happen... Just check out the Mig27 refitted with AL31... You just look at a big plane with a small engine... Very funny but still possible. Whether they go for M53? There seems to be a visit to Pakistan by mr Chirac and they will talk about lots of defence deals... You never know. People said a lot of things but the reality seems to be chaotic so now and then. So we will see in a few months.

Well, I must not forget the pic otherwise people think I am crazy...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So what if Mig-27 refitted with AL-31? JF-17 is not Mig-27. There is like this obsession that JF-17 must have Western stuff to be legitimate. Even though RD-33 had quality issues in the past, RD-93 hasn't been a problem at all in the tests. RD-93 seems to be more than adequate for what JF-17 is designed to do. And from what I've read from CAC and Chinese sources, nobody have mentioned anything outside of Chinese option as alternatives to RD-93 and that's only because WS-13 and WS-12 are probably designed for JF-17. It just isn't happening.

 

[Londo Molari]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

But then wasn't one of the chief claimed selling point of the FC1/JF17 its modular design that can allow the installation of different engines if the customer wanted it?

As far as I know, the answer is NO. Indeed its designed to be modular and customizable, but not for the BIGGEST PIECE of the aircraft. Thats like saying "can the wings be switched with J-10 wings? After all its modular!". They said it can be customized to fit various different radars, avionics, seat systems, weapons, etc..." Not engine.

It was built around the RD-93 engine. The only other engine choices will be those which are specifically designed FOR the JF-17, like the WS-13.

 

[Munir]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Well its not such a big deal that Mr. Chirac coming to Pakistan now that he's been out of office for two years.

Sorry, it is Charcozy... The president at the moment... Does that make difference to you? Certainly if they are mentioning packages and defence equipment?

 

[Munir]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

So what if Mig-27 refitted with AL-31? JF-17 is not Mig-27. There is like this obsession that JF-17 must have Western stuff to be legitimate. Even though RD-33 had quality issues in the past, RD-93 hasn't been a problem at all in the tests. RD-93 seems to be more than adequate for what JF-17 is designed to do. And from what I've read from CAC and Chinese sources, nobody have mentioned anything outside of Chinese option as alternatives to RD-93 and that's only because WS-13 and WS-12 are probably designed for JF-17. It just isn't happening.

JF17 will grow and become heavier or willing to take more then 3900 kg ordnance...

It is difficult to answer a mod cause it is seen pretty fast as a wrong answer... Let me put it simple. JF17 is medium tech. One of the variables is the engine. Power, maintenance, MTBF you can name a few parameters where other western engines would be fine to replace it. I do not think you would disagree on that. Same goes with AL31 which is going to replaced if Chinese can make something as good as or better then... I can start what if on that... But it could have been other engine if China was a partner of the USA... For Pakistan it is wise not to put its eggs in one basket. Whether that means buying US, Chinese, French equipment at the same time... They will do it. The Russian part is now seen in the engine but we know that it does have some reasons to be replaced. One of the reason is to sell this plane with multiple avionics, weapons and engine packages... Some nation might have experience with French engines... Here you go...

Got to go cause I have not the feeling that it has a real link with the topics.

 

[tphuang]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

JF17 will grow and become heavier or willing to take more then 3900 kg ordnance...

It is difficult to answer a mod cause it is seen pretty fast as a wrong answer... Let me put it simple. JF17 is medium tech. One of the variables is the engine. Power, maintenance, MTBF you can name a few parameters where other western engines would be fine to replace it. I do not think you would disagree on that. Same goes with AL31 which is going to replaced if Chinese can make something as good as or better then... I can start what if on that... But it could have been other engine if China was a partner of the USA... For Pakistan it is wise not to put its eggs in one basket. Whether that means buying US, Chinese, French equipment at the same time... They will do it. The Russian part is now seen in the engine but we know that it does have some reasons to be replaced. One of the reason is to sell this plane with multiple avionics, weapons and engine packages... Some nation might have experience with French engines... Here you go...

Got to go cause I have not the feeling that it has a real link with the topics.

It'd certainly be nice if can install a bunch of other engines, but there is no indication from the Chinese side that JF-17 is capable of having options other than RD-93 and WS-13. I have certainly read many interviews on this and M53 has never been mentioned. Just look at the dimensions:
M53:
# Length: 5,070 mm (199.60 in)
# Diameter: 796 mm (31.33 in) inlet
# Dry weight: 1,515 kg (3,340 lb)
RD33:
# Length: 4,250 mm (167.3 in)
# Diameter: 1,040 mm (40.9 in)
# Dry weight: 1,055 kg (2,325 lb)
M53 is clearly a much larger + heavier engine.
And it also has an inferior T/W ratio + fuel consumption rate compared to RD-93.
Now, if you want to install M88, that would be a different story, but then availability + cost come into play.

I don't want it to make it look like I'm bullying you here, but you are not backing up your points with good reason.

 

[challenge]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

other option was RB-199. T:W ratio at 7.5 ( compare to M-53 6.5) not bad.