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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The article neglects to mention just how close the F117 was to the SAM site that took it down. The radar was able to detect "Something Wicked" at 23km thats about 14 miles and attack at 13km. For aircraft that's proverbial spitting distance.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
The article neglects to mention just how close the F117 was to the SAM site that took it down. The radar was able to detect "Something Wicked" at 23km thats about 14 miles and attack at 13km. For aircraft that's proverbial spitting distance.

That sounds like typical interception range. The S-125 has actually only a max range of like 25km while the relevant no-escape area of the S-125 is way lower than that of course.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The radar is capable of more. But the stealth did have an effect. Again it had to be close. And F117 lacked any defences compared to the more modern F22, F35 even updated B2 It had no RWR or decoy system even chalf and flares.
 
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from
Trump: NATO members must do more to raise defense spending
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it's actually interesting
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Germany muddles through another NATO shindig
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Say what you will about Germany's defense spending, the ritual of U.S. leaders trashing Berlin is almost becoming something of a unifying force within the alliance.

The country is far from on track when it comes to reaching the military budget target agreed by all allies: 2% of gross domestic product by 2024. As expected, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence called Germany out for its lackluster defense expenditures on the eve of a NATO ministerial in Washington this week, referring to a draft budget projection in Berlin that would put the country at 1.3% or so by that time.

And as expected, German Foreign Minister Heiko Mass responded in the same way that his government always does: re-subscribing to the spending commitment, throwing up his hands over competing domestic priorities, and pleading to widen the scope for measuring German contributions to NATO beyond the defense budget alone.

“We intend to keep our word,” Maas said in Washington on Wednesday afternoon, having just hopped off the Amtrak from United Nations business in New York. For good measure, he threw in a reference about the intricacies of the German budgeting process, as if hoping that its opaqueness would one day give way to even a 1.5% spending level.

That is the percentage figure almost tacitly accepted by some European alliance members who just want to see Berlin make an honest effort. Getting to the NATO-required spending of 2% by 2024 would require such a massive influx of military spending in such a short amount of time that there would be good reason to wonder if the Bundeswehr could absorb it to good effect.

There is no more hoping to fly under the radar with a missing half percentage point now. Key allies in Europe had signaled that they could defend a German exception for a 1.5% target against the White House, but the news from earlier this spring that Berlin's trajectory is now even lower was a significant snub to them, said Christian Mölling, a senior analyst at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin.

There is also a fear here by European NATO members that if Germany manages to anger President Trump enough over underspending, his rage could target the alliance as a whole. “There is fear of a spill-over effect,” Mölling said. When it comes to spending and the perception of threats to NATO, "We are on a different planet than all the other allies,” he added.

At the same time, things could have been far worse this week.

Let us remember that the ministerial and surrounding festivities for NATO's 70th birthday were choreographed specifically to avoid giving Trump a platform for the kind of acrimony that permeated the last day of the Brussels summit last year. And that plan has largely worked.

“Nothing happened, and everyone is happy about that,” said Mölling when asked about the gathering's lasting effect.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg helped persuade Trump in Brussels to take alliance-wide spending increases to the bank as his personal achievement, averting a catastrophic implosion of the summit at the last minute. The Norwegian emerged as a key figure again this time around, stoically reciting the mantra that all members – read: Germany – would be held to their commitments while dutifully lauding Berlin’s ongoing alliance contributions.

Stoltenberg delivered a rousing speech before a joint session of Congress, viking jokes and all, that managed to revive for a moment the spirit of multilaterism against the backdrop of a U.S. administration known for its transactional foreign policy.

Along with his criticism of Germany, Pence, too, invoked transatlantic unity. “The United States has been faithful to Europe for generations, and we'll keep the faith,” he said. “The United States of America is now, and will always be Europe's greatest ally.”

Germany has its own internal struggles ahead when it comes to defining a budget commitment to NATO, which all members reportedly reinforced in this week’s ministerial communique. The final due date for the spending increase is still several years away. Until then, there will be more alliance events for Berlin to muddle through. If nothing else, that spectacle seems to keep everyone at the table talking about moving the alliance forward, for now.
 
I've recently followed the Merlins story at defence24.pl, now noticed this text in English so I share it
AW101s for the Polish Navy: It’s Only the Beginning
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The conclusion of an offset agreement concerning the Polish acquisition of AW101 Merlin ASW helicopters (with optional Combat SAR capability embedded) shall be perceived as a good sign. One should hope that procurement of the first 4 land-based helicopters is the beginning, not the end of the modernization process, concerning the Polish naval aviation. The needs and requirements that exist are much higher, and this can no longer be mitigated by extension of lifecycles of the Mi-14 helicopters that are becoming a thing of the past.

The offset deal announced on 8th April 2019, with regards to acquisition of land-based ASW helicopters that would also offer CSAR capabilities gives some hope to the Polish Navy’s air component. The Navy hopes that a crisis caused by a lack of modern aircraft would come to an end. Currently the lifecycles of Mi-14 helicopters are being extended. The Hazes, being 3 decades old, serve as maritime SAR and ASW platforms. Thanks to the life extension programme 2 Mi-14PŁ/R SAR platforms and 8 Mi-14PŁ ASW helicopters would be available for further operation over the upcoming 4 years. Over that period, not only is it required to deliver new maritime helicopters, as crew training would be equally important, so that the helicopters could become operational.

Decision: Beginning of the Path

Conclusion of the offset agreement, despite its being surprising, means that the tests have been successfully accomplished, with a positive result. Secondly, one should expect the contract proper being signed soon. However, procurement of 4 maritime helicopters solves the problems of the Polish Navy only to a very minor extent. It does not even really solve them, it is rather a signal suggesting that there is a chance that a solution could potentially emerge. The minimum requirements defined within the scope of ensuring security and safety on the Baltic Sea, ASW- and SAR-wise, envisage use of at least twice as many helicopters that would be ready for operation. Thus, the agreement planned in April 2019 shall be treated as a beginning of a long-term process that would envisage resuscitation of the Polish Navy’s air assets.

At the moment there is an urgent requirement to procure the large aircraft, especially for the purpose of carrying out rescue operations. The invaluable support provided by such platform has been recently exemplified by the incident involving a ferry that found itself in the territorial waters of Norway. The need to evacuate a large number of people from a large passenger weather, in challenging conditions, with the use of relatively large H225 Super Puma airframes (civil counterpart of the H225M Caracal helicopter) has turned out to be a major challenge. Should something like that happen in the Polish SAR AoR, the situation would be much more dramatic.

Procurement of large land-based helicopters does not solve all of the Navy’s problems, when it comes to the helicopters. However, one should note that embarked helicopters are a burning issue as well. The Kaman SH-2G Super Seasprite platforms have been operated in Poland since 2003 now, with OHP ORP Gen. K. Pułaski and ORP Gen. T. Kościuszko frigates. Despite the fact that only 50% of their lifecycle has been used up they will have to be withdrawn, as no manufacturer support is available. In the light of the above, as Polish Deputy Minister of Defence Wojciech Skurkiewicz admitted, acquisition of new ASW embarked helicopters has become very urgent. Even if the SH-2G helicopters remaining in service are operated until the Polish Navy runs out of spares, the above would mean that embarked helicopter will also be needed for the newly introduced vessels.

In fact, the decision to maintain the illusory capabilities of the currently operated helicopters seriously impairs the operational abilities of the Polish OHP class vessels. The helicopter, in the current operational context, constitutes a key element of the equipment inventory used by the naval units, both within the scope of reconnaissance, as well as within the scope of acting against any threats. The above applies to the vessels such as the ORP Ślązak or the future Miecznik and Czapla class combatants as well. Not only would it be justified to acquire helicopters and train the crews for the vessels that are being introduced or that are planned to be introduced into service, but, above all, Poland should focus on acquiring helicopters that would operate from the existing vessels and on homogenizing the fleet of the embarked helicopters.

A Success for Leonardo Helicopters

The upcoming agreement conclusion with regards to acquisition of the first AW101 Merlin helicopters for Poland shall be perceived as a major success for the Leonardo company. Here mentioning the “first Merlin helicopters” is a conscious statement. It was repeatedly emphasized that the Polish Navy needs twice as many heavy helos. It could also be expected that AW101 variant for the Special Operations Forces would also be introduced, replacing the Mi-17 platform operated now. HH-101A Caesar has been presented in Poland a couple of times now - for instance during the MSPO 2017 event. It is tailored much better to the modern battlefield circumstances than the Mi-17 and, operationally speaking, it would be complementary when placed alongside the currently procured Black Hawk helicopters. All of the above shall be considered in a longer run of course.

Acquisition of embarked helicopters should be expected to happen earlier. Here, Leonardo Helicopters has a major advantage over its competitors. Not only is the AW159 Wildcat helicopter, popular in Europe and beyond and well-suited to the Polish needs, included in its offer, but launching of a licensed Helicopter Operation Support Centre at WZL-1 (within the framework of an offset agreement) and operation of the AW-101 in the Polish Navy will also have a major impact on future helicopter acquisitions in Poland, at least in the maritime domain. Homogenization, within the scope of supplier and manufacturer, can be justified economy-, logistics- and operations-wise. One should also hope that these matters are being considered by the decisionmakers, as embarked helicopters for OHP, Miecznik or Ślązak class should be a matter that would come up in the foreseeable future.

At the same time, the offset deal related to AW-101 that would see the WZL-1 benefiting from it would constitute a relevant impulse for that company, when it comes to new know-how and western technologies. Making a good use of those capabilities would create new paths of development for this facility, reaching beyond the domain of the post-Soviet equipment. In a longer run it could translate into an ability to maintain and service other helicopter types, in both commercial and military applications.

The breakthrough in question, that follows a long silence caused by the decision to cancel the H225M Caracal contract is a good sign. Notably though, the number of the procured helicopters would not be high. This should be a spark that would initiate the process of replacing the Polish helicopters, otherwise the procurement will not have an operational meaning - it would be purely of political and demonstrative nature. Meanwhile, the helicopter fleet that is broadly utilized by the military and indispensable in the modern conflicts would not last 4 years, until the next election. Urgent and significant injection of new technologies is needed, along with modernization of the owned helicopter fleet.
 
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