Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

Thanks for you strong opinion Obi Wan! And I agree with you.

No offense Popeye, but I know how much old plumbing and disconnected electrical runs there are in these old ships, banged up lockers and berthing spaces, tempermental old boilers, cranky evaporators, worn out shaft bearings, rusty heads and clogged plumbing. It may look nice with fresh paint on it, but there are thousands of miles of pipes and electrical runs inside that are fifty years old.

Click to expand...

No offense taken. You speak the truth. USN CVs have high mileage. No question. Thousands upon thousands of hard miles. Power plants put to hard use. . Zillions of miles of electrical spaghetti. Pump rooms, axillary machinery...The list goes on and on.

Some ships are better cared for than others. For instance I know the Midway and Kitty Hawk were well taken care of while forward deployed in Japan. ..But the America and JFK were ridden hard and put up wet. Both ships SLEP were canceled. The JFK while she was in the midst of one.. stupid. The Constellation had only three main machinery spaces operating in her latter days because of a bent screw that was never properly repaired. Considering the complexity of those ships it is a tribute that they were maintained in any sort of operating condition.

All this being said consider the life of an CVN is 50 years.

Only one navy in the world could efficiently man and maintain an super carrier...one..The USN..

I get asked to explain the ski jump quite often, and to avoid repeating myself I've drawn up an explanitive diagram:

Remember aircraft leave the end of the ramp not truly 'flying' (ie supported by their wings, but they are moving upwards as well as forwards and are still accelerating.

Some excellent photos of the JMSDF Hyuga DDH 181

bd popeye said:

Some excellent photos of the JMSDF Hyuga DDH 181

Click to expand...

Great pics popeye. I have updated my

Here is one pic of the newly launched, DDH-182, Ise, (the second in class)you may not have seen.



Also, if you were not aware, here's more news. The Japanese are in the process of approving the budget for 2010 which would include a new class, the 22DDH Class (The Hyuga was the 16DDH class). This vessel would have a full-load in excess of 30,000 tons and would be 150ft longer than the Hyuga.

Here are some artist conception pictures (good ones too), with a couple comparing the new class to the Hyuga.

Jeff Head said:

Also, if you were not aware, here's more news. The Japanese are in the process of approving the budget for 2010 which would include a new class, the 22DDH Class (The Hyuga was the 16DDH class). This vessel would have a full-load in excess of 30,000 tons and would be 150ft longer than the Hyuga.

Click to expand...

Not going to happen. It's almost certain to be cut in the budget negotiations. Could be argued the MOD know that and deliberately included the plans to have something to cut to please the government.

Mr T said:

Not going to happen. It's almost certain to be cut in the budget negotiations. Could be argued the MOD know that and deliberately included the plans to have something to cut to please the government.

Click to expand...

Lot of folks thought the DDH16 would not happen either, yet here we sit a few years later with two of them in the water. I admit that with the more liberal government it may be very unlikely...but stranger things have happened, and the proposal has been made. Time will tell...this go around and probably in the future too.

It's possible you could both be right. The JMSDF/MOD might well put this design forward as a 'sacrificial lamb', knowing it won't be approved, and then as a consolation prize be allowed to order a third Hyuga instead. The 22DDH design can then sit waiting in the wings for things to improve politically a few years down the line and then re emerge as the logical follow on from the Hyugas. Either way, I think it shows the JMSDF is looking to acquire more capable aviation oriented ships in the future, most definately with an eye to countering the Chinese posture that will inevitably follow the service entry of Varyag. Having a few 22DDHs in service will allow a rapid change from ASW helo only operations to mixed helo/STOVL ops (yes I'm hinting at the Lightning, expect a few exchange postings to USMC sqns as a first step...) should a re orientation of Japan's defence posture become necessary.

I have to agree with Mr. T on this one. With the election of a new liberal government expect military budget cuts. They've pulled there naval forces out of the Indian Ocean region. There are even more protest against the US military on Okinawa and the Yokosuka. I could be wrong..but that's just my opinion....

Yes I agree too, though I was looking further ahead than the current government's term of office. As a British Prime Minister once remarked when asked why he hadn't achieved his aims whilst in office, he simply replied "Events, Dear Boy". The New Liberal Government of Japan clearly has an agenda, but I think the next five years will make things difficult for them (for example if/when the PLAN get a carrier to sea). Meanwhile the JMSDF will bide it's time, bring both Hyugas into service and operate them with as few as four helos each so as not to look 'offensive' to the government, and still plan for the next generation of 'DDHs' even if they have to wait for the next change of government.

To be clear I was talking about the upcoming budget. I don't think the current MSDF build up plan had a requirement for such ships - unless they were intended to replace the Shirane class in the future. I had thought two more Hyugas would be ordered for that.

In the future anything could happen. But at least they've started the ball rolling with the Hyugas.