Chinese Economics Thread

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
Often the GDP growth rates that are cited (real GDP increase in domestic currency) is not enough to show how economic power calculus between Nations is shifting.

The Nominal $ denominated figures are more comparable for that.

View attachment 129311

Chinese economy went from being 76% of US size to (projected in 2024) to 64.3% of US size. Even 5 years back that was unimaginable.

China is under-counting its gdp by a lot.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
That was a dumb comment. I'm sorry. Your posts are usually high-quality and I enjoy reading them.

I think China is a one-of-a-kind economy becuase an increasing portion of its commodity imports are paid for in RMB and it is capable of manufacturing most industrial products domestically. As such, measuring the GDP of China in USD may not be the best option, although it is still important. Obviously, this varies by country. For instance, Russia's nominal GDP in USD significantly understates its economic output due to Western sanctions. On the other hand, India's nominal GDP in USD is a fair representation of its economic output because it is largely free to trade with the rest of the world and depends heavily on foreign industrial products.

If you think about it, the world really should be using the RMB when comparing against different countries.

1. More countries count China as their largest trading partner than the USA.
2. China has the largest economy in the world in terms of real output of goods and services. So China has more influence over global benchmark prices for goods and services.

Of course, such a practice would be heresy for the US.
Plus China is not ready for this, as they still see themselves as a developing middle-income country.

But let's see what happens when China passes the US in terms of nominal GDP.

NB. In the event of this happening, IMF bylaws state the headquarters has to move from the US to China
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
France was not the next to industrialize though. It was behind Germany despite being geographically closer to UK and despite English being Germanic language, most of its vocabulary is French or Latin, not German. Meanwhile Germany was extremely authoritarian even by 19th century standards and was geographically further away yet Germany grasped all technologies of the oil and electrical age. And of course, neither Germany nor France truly grasped mass production the way US and Russia did. They were still using basically artisinal production in WW2 while Soviets for instance used mass production techniques like linear programming for economic planning and stamped parts.

It is well known that South Korea developed due to a Vietnam War bounty the same way Japan developed from the Korean War bounty as a logistics hub for the US. And the closest to US and Japan was Philippines, which was the richest country in Asia in 1950. And then Philippines in the 1980's was both geographically close to and had visa-free travel to Singapore. Yet... where are they now?

The first investors in China after 1979 were overseas Chinese and European, Japanese and Koreans only came later once things were proven. And even then, Koreans invested in Vietnam more. The Korean investment phase was extremely short, only 2006-2017. Barely even 10 years. Samsung had less than 5 years in the sun in China.

IDK about this.
France did industrialise at the same time as Germany. But they fell behind in the second half of the 19th century. An important factor is probably that they fought various wars, most importantly the Crimean war, after which they start to fall behind and the one in 1870 against Germany, after which they get left behind by their peers.

co-emissions-per-capita.png

Geography just gives you the opportunity to develop, it doesn't automatically give you development. Any county in east Asia has the opportunity now and I don't think it can be argued against China benefiting from its environment. That doesn't take away from the achievements of the communist party. But if China were located where south Africa is, I think they'd have had a much harder time.


Of course failing to develop, like the Philippines, despite such a beneficial environment is a sign of incompetence and a failure to seize the opportunity
 

Proton

New Member
Registered Member
Often the GDP growth rates that are cited (real GDP increase in domestic currency) is not enough to show how economic power calculus between Nations is shifting.

The Nominal $ denominated figures are more comparable for that.

View attachment 129311

Chinese economy went from being 76% of US size to (projected in 2024) to 64.3% of US size. Even 5 years back that was unimaginable.
A 20% drop in the CNY to USD exchange rate due to a 5.75% swing in relative interest rates seems like basic economics.
An appreciation is expected if the US drops its interest rates again.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Of course failing to develop, like the Philippines, despite such a beneficial environment is a sign of incompetence and a failure to seize the opportunity
We have NO SAY on the matter, granting us independence is a farce as we are so depended on the US for our reconstruction needs that we had to pawn our future to them. ( Mineral resource were given to American company as collateral to exploit)

Why didn't the US annex us as the 51st state? aside from being Brown why bother to reconstruct a former colony devastated by our war when we can control it for cheap and benefited hugely from it.

Bell Trade Act, an act passed by the U.S.
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specifying the economic conditions governing the emergence of the Republic of the
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from U.S. rule; the act included controversial provisions that tied the Philippine economy to that of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.


When the Philippines became independent on July 4, 1946, its economy had been thoroughly devastated by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Payment of war damage claims by the U.S. government and an influx of capital were both desperately needed. The Bell Act set quotas on Philippine exports to the U.S., pegged the Philippine peso to the U.S. dollar at a rate of 2:1, and provided for
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
between the two countries for 8 years, to be followed by gradual application of tariffs for the next 20 years. Many Filipinos objected to the so-called
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, which required an
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to the Philippine constitution allowing U.S. citizens
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with Filipinos in the exploitation of natural resources and operation of public utilities; nonetheless, some powerful Filipinos involved in these negotiations stood to benefit from the arrangement.

A strong incentive for Philippine acquiescence was the fact that American payment of $800,000,000 in war damage claims was made
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
upon Filipino ratification of the Bell Act. The act remained extremely unpopular in the Philippines. It was later superseded by an agreement more favourable to Filipino interests, the Laurel-Langley Agreement, which took effect in 1956.
 
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Randomuser

Junior Member
Registered Member
We have NO SAY on the matter, granting us independence is a farce as we are so depended on the US for our reconstruction needs that we had to pawn our future to them. ( Mineral resource were given to American company as collateral to exploit)

Why didn't the US annex us as the 51st state? aside from being Brown why bother to reconstruct a former colony devastated by our war when we can control it for cheap and benefited hugely from it.

Bell Trade Act, an act passed by the U.S.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
specifying the economic conditions governing the emergence of the Republic of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
from U.S. rule; the act included controversial provisions that tied the Philippine economy to that of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.


When the Philippines became independent on July 4, 1946, its economy had been thoroughly devastated by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Payment of war damage claims by the U.S. government and an influx of capital were both desperately needed. The Bell Act set quotas on Philippine exports to the U.S., pegged the Philippine peso to the U.S. dollar at a rate of 2:1, and provided for
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
between the two countries for 8 years, to be followed by gradual application of tariffs for the next 20 years. Many Filipinos objected to the so-called
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, which required an
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to the Philippine constitution allowing U.S. citizens
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
with Filipinos in the exploitation of natural resources and operation of public utilities; nonetheless, some powerful Filipinos involved in these negotiations stood to benefit from the arrangement.

A strong incentive for Philippine acquiescence was the fact that American payment of $800,000,000 in war damage claims was made
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
upon Filipino ratification of the Bell Act. The act remained extremely unpopular in the Philippines. It was later superseded by an agreement more favourable to Filipino interests, the Laurel-Langley Agreement, which took effect in 1956.
I guess even without an army there, the Philippines is a de facto vassal state.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
I guess even without an army there, the Philippines is a de facto vassal state.
The sad thing is that the American are the one who leveled and destroyed Manila, we then borrowed the money used for her reconstruction, like a mafia the loan was provided with a high interest rate. The rebuilding effort sucks all the fund needed for other development that the provinces had become so poor that the farmers had to sell their land to survived thus increasing the landholdings of the landed oligarch. Thus we term our capital as Imperial Manila, all the wealth of the nation had to go through her and she alone decide how much is distributed (the joke is Mindanao provide the lumber in return for a toothpick....lol), you control the purse you control the loyalty of your subject, its the only means to hold the nation together, Manila is an extension of American rule if you destroy her you destroyed the American influence.
 

TK3600

Captain
Registered Member
Geography just gives you the opportunity to develop, it doesn't automatically give you development. Any county in east Asia has the opportunity now and I don't think it can be argued against China benefiting from its environment. That doesn't take away from the achievements of the communist party. But if China were located where south Africa is, I think they'd have had a much harder time.


Of course failing to develop, like the Philippines, despite such a beneficial environment is a sign of incompetence and a failure to seize the opportunity
CCP will absolutely do better. South Africa was already developed, had independent MIC, world class medical industry, nuclear weapon armed. All CCP needs is to not to fuck up what it already got.
 

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member




By the looks of it, vassal bagholders like Japan and others will be hurt the most when the UST values go to nothing, as they are still replenishing and increasing their UST reserves (while missing out on gold, which could go parabolic in the future if that above happens as it becomes the new neutral reserve asset and could offset that loss). Imagine all that generational wealth and reserves you accumulated as a nation vanishing overnight due to some lies the US brainwashed you with about their "superiority" in the world when they are a terminally ill patient rotting away.
 
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