Chinese Economics Thread

CasualObserver

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Westerners are finally visiting China and catching on to just how much things have changed to China's competitiveness in advanced industries
here's a hard to swallow truth
Governments in the US and Europe have focused heavily on the need to “
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away from China after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and border closures under the pandemic. But the more competitive the mainland becomes, the harder it is for international industrial players to leave.
Nicely said...
Both old and new industrial companies repeatedly emphasise the need to be in China for research purposes as well as to access its vast market. Windrose Technology, an electric truck start-up that has so far produced 13 vehicles, aims to eventually list in the US but currently relies on mainland China partners, including state-owned Anhui Jianghuai Automobile Group, for manufacturing....
...“As an EV maker, if you are not linked to China and you pretend to be the world’s best truck in the EV space, no one’s going to believe you,” said Wen Han, Windrose founder. “If I told people I was an Australian EV start-up, people would just probably not believe me. If I told people I’m a British EV start-up, they would also not believe me.”
 

TK3600

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Yeah, the biggest problem is that the Western countries are already 'developed', so developing countries taking their advice, or seeking to emulate their current policies and systems is the stupidest thing ever. And so Western "experts' advice" (pressure) is both deceitful and harmful (on purpose). The biggest bullshit is focusing on services and consumptions instead of industry and investment. Most of the capital should go to the latter two fundamentally.

The only reason those Western countries are focusing on the first two now is that they already developed all of their innate human capital and productive limits, now getting diminishing returns on physical investments (E.g. roads, factories, technology) so they have to 'squeeze' what is left over to get that artificial 'growth'.

It is better said, that since their wealthy elites don't get the same investment prospects there, as before, due to competition, for example, for limited human capital, resulting in higher wages, unionization, more costs, and fewer profits, in various industries, they switched their capital for investment to less-productive services (including finance, passive investing) and lobbied for consumption-based economic models after taking control over their governments (and public perception and media) with generations of amassed concentrated wealth.

So, those countries are not really 'growing' themselves at this point, they are stagnating (real wages freeze or fall over years, no new productive value created in the economy), and only their elites continue to grow their wealth through various machinations internally, albeit at the cost of entire countries collapsing/falling back at later dates due to rising wealth inequality and losing competitive productive physical, tangible advantage to outside rivals.

The modern US is at this stage, for example, but fares way better than other contemporary or past similar empires due to the successful globalization of their currency, to this extent, for the first time in history. However, even that could be and is about to be lost thanks to them losing comprehensive physical, industrial, and tangible power in comparison to their biggest rival China, who could, therefore, burst that modern, global virtual scheme any time it chooses to now, and will get even better and better fighting chance as the time goes on.

Nevertheless, if a country has upward potential still, like most of the Global South, in terms of educational improvement for the existing population (more meritocracy, gross enrollment rates, especially tertiary levels, and STEM), total R&D, and infrastructure, potential, then it should go all in on manufacturing and investment. Investment and industry are the only ways that every entire in the history of the world managed to reach advanced standards of living and power. However, if we are talking about systems, then it is an autocratic system + a preferably somewhat directed economy. See colonial, mercantilist monarchies.

East Asian example is the best example you could theoretically follow on rising without having colonies or being surrounded by wealthy colonial empires of the past (entire Europe), descending from them (North America, Australia, NZ). China rose thanks to investment as seen from these two graphs, just match its GDP history with them and you will see what I mean. So, every time some Western CIA "economists" advise it to do more than now in terms of policies for spending, consumerism, more financilization - less real economy, less money in the state banks for strategic investing, less investment in total, etc, he is doing it out of sinister intentions (same as manufacturing, see "overcapacity" clown show).



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There is no such thing as developed. You are either a developing country, or a stagnating/declining country. Back in the day the developed countries were called "industrialized countries". That was simply not true anymore, so they invented a new term to cope. The technology keeps on progressing. Machines and tools needs constant upgrade. Therefore there is no finishing development. If one is not developing, they are stagnating, that is what they are. Stagnating country has terrible grasp of economy, so one should never listen to them, developed or not. A wealthy, 'developed' country listening to their advice will sure to find itself imploding, just as well as any poor developing country.

Within the stagnating country one could roughly split them into 2 categories, the "struggling countries" and "rotten countries". The former are the typical poor 3rd world country that has little human capital or natural resource to facilitate development. They either do not know how to develop, or has no natural affordance. The latter category of "rotten countries" has all the money and education to excel, but cannot put them into productive use. Their economic skill is so bad it cancels out the good dispositional factors. Their grasp of economic is in fact far below poor third world countries. Yes, that means African countries overrun by warlords know economics better than likes of UK.
 

SlothmanAllen

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There is no such thing as developed. You are either a developing country, or a stagnating/declining country.

Doesn't "developed" just loosely imply a certain level of industrialization, infrastructure, population health (life span), literacy...? Countries like the United States can be considered to have been "developed" for ages, but that doesn't imply progress stops.

Yes, that means African countries overrun by warlords know economics better than likes of UK.

What?
 

TK3600

Captain
Registered Member
Doesn't "developed" just loosely imply a certain level of industrialization, infrastructure, population health (life span), literacy...? Countries like the United States can be considered to have been "developed" for ages, but that doesn't imply progress stops.



What?
If having industrial base and education and still having similar performance as an improvished country, then it reflect exceptional poor economic skill. The previous advantage were built by people with better skill. In this world, the more advantage you have, the easier it is to snowball.

Let me use an analogy. Who is the better driver? A novice driver with a minivan, or a guy on a Lambo, but ends up same performance?

Doesn't "developed" just loosely imply a certain level of industrialization, infrastructure, population health (life span), literacy...? Countries like the United States can be considered to have been "developed" for ages, but that doesn't imply progress stops.
The particular example you have of US, is regressing in industry, infrastructure, and average life expectancy.
 
If having industrial base and education and still having similar performance as an improvished country, then it reflect exceptional poor economic skill. The previous advantage were built by people with better skill. In this world, the more advantage you have, the easier it is to snowball.
How are you measuring performance?? Can you name one metric for which there exists a "developed" economy that is not far ahead of any "impoverished" economy?
 

SlothmanAllen

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The particular example you have of US, is regressing in industry, infrastructure, and average life expectancy.
That is a great example for those specific cases in which that is occurring in the US, but that isn't the case for every developed country. That likely reflects complex social, economic and political problems in the US more then a concept of you are either, "stagnating or developing".
 

TK3600

Captain
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How are you measuring performance?? Can you name one metric for which there exists a "developed" economy that is not far ahead of any "impoverished" economy?
I am making a point about the leaders running the economy rather than the country itself. The so called leader of developed economy knows jack shit.

Their performance is measured by direction of economy. It is very easy to grow according to technological progress when you are already well off. Yet these leader hardly grow economy, sometimes even regressing! This is a reflection of their poor grasp of economy. These people know less about economy than your average third world poor country leaders. If their position are swaped, the western leader run poor country will do worse, and the western developed country run by third world leader will do better.

What is my point to original quote? It is not that advice from leaders of developed economy only applies to developed economy. Their advice is shit no matter who follows it.
 
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TK3600

Captain
Registered Member
That is a great example for those specific cases in which that is occurring in the US, but that isn't the case for every developed country. That likely reflects complex social, economic and political problems in the US more then a concept of you are either, "stagnating or developing".
The word 'developed' implies a level of optimal performance that can no longer go up. That is of course ridiculous. The fact is they are so incompetent, that is why their development fail to scale up to technological progress. Development is endless, because it scales to endless technological progress. If you are not developing, you are stagnating. A leadership from stagnating economy is poor leadership, so their advice is garbage!
 
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