True or False? Successful Vaccine Developed

ravenshield936

Banned Idiot
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So yea up there it says successful vaccine developed against AIDS. If it's true then that will be a great news. However I am no medical expert, and I heard some of our members here have advanced medical knowledge as expertise, and I hope maybe someone can explain to me and clarify what's going on as written in the article.
 

vesicles

Colonel
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So yea up there it says successful vaccine developed against AIDS. If it's true then that will be a great news. However I am no medical expert, and I heard some of our members here have advanced medical knowledge as expertise, and I hope maybe someone can explain to me and clarify what's going on as written in the article.

I think they tested a whole bunch of vaccines and found one that actually worked. They still have no idea how it works yet. Like the article said, the HIV virus is a mutating virus, just like flu. The way our immune system works is that it churns out humongous amount of immune cells (B- and T-cells) that have various antibodies attached. The goal is to "mark" the invading cells (be it virus, bacteria, or pollen if you have allergy). The hope is that one of those antibodies will match SOME unique features of the antigen and put a label on the invading cell. These labeled invading cells then immediately become targets of attack by our own killer cells, like macrophages (much like how a laser-guided missile works, now I think of it). These killer cells either eat the invading cells alive, or secrete peptides that drill holes into membranes of the invading cells. pretty gruesome stuff. So the key for all this to work is to find a B- or T-cell that has the matching antibody that can actually label the invading cells. Unfortunately, there is no easy way out of this. Our body simply churns out as many of these cells as possible and hope one will match. The way I think of it is like a locksmith trying to open a lock by making vast amount of keys and hope one will match the lock. Not the most efficient way, but it works.

Many viruses get away by constantly changing itself. If the key of our immune systems is to find a matching key, imagine what would happen if a locksmith is trying to open a lock while the lock itself keeps changing. So our immune system always lags behind a little. That's why we still don't have an effective way of curing something so simple like a common flu and so terrible like HIV. Doesn't matter what drug you come up with, the virus keeps changing! That guarantees some, however small, population of the virus will survive. And give it a couple days/months and millions of generations of viruses, you will have another pandemic in your body.

That's where vaccine comes in. We are introduced with a small population of either dead whole viruses or parts of viruses. This way, we won't get sick while giving our body a chance to manufacture "labeling cells" that match the virus. And our body would then store these matching cells for rainy days. The idea is that we would have these matching cells ready to label viruses as soon as they attack and give them no chance to mutate. The difficult part of this, in the case of flu virus, is that there are hundreds of types of flu virus and we have to have matching cells for each type of them. that's why we have to get flu shots every year. Another problem is that these stored matching cells have shelf life and expire from time to time.

The problem with HIV is that it changes so fast and it's a retrovirus, meaning it injects its own RNA into our own cells. Then our own ells turn these RNA into DNA, which combines with our our own DNA. Then WE ourselves start pumping out viruses. Even if you kill the actual virus, the viral DNA is already in us, much like in the movie "Alien".

One key step in viral infection is the fusion of viral membrane with host cell membrane, which then allows the virus to dump its RNA into host cells. A major trend in the field is to figure out a way to stop this fusion. Of course the problem with this strategy is that you can't simply stop all membrane fusion, which is a vital part of cell metabolism. You stop fusion, all of our own cells will die and that's not good. So the key is to find the kind of fusion process that's unique to viruses. We actually did some theoretical work on the the process of membrane fusion and it's not as easy as previously thought...

Sorry about the long post. I get excited whenever people talk about this stuff :D:D:D
 
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ravenshield936

Banned Idiot
I think they tested a whole bunch of vaccines and found one that actually worked. They still have no idea how it works yet. Like the article said, the HIV virus is a mutating virus, just like flu. The way our immune system works is that it churns out humongous amount of immune cells (B- and T-cells) that have various antibodies attached. The goal is to "mark" the invading cells (be it virus, bacteria, or pollen if you have allergy). The hope is that one of those antibodies will match SOME unique features of the antigen and put a label on the invading cell. These labeled invading cells then immediately become targets of attack by our own killer cells, like macrophages. These killer cells either eat the invading cells alive, or secrete peptides that drill holes into membranes of the invading cells. pretty gruesome stuff. So the key for all this to work is to find a B- or T-cell that has the matching antibody that can actually label the invading cells. Unfortunately, there is no easy way out of this. Our body simply churns out as many of these cells as possible and hope one will match. The way I think of it is like a locksmith trying to open a lock by making vast amount of keys and hope one will match the lock. Not the most efficient way, but it works.

Many viruses get away by constantly changing itself. If the key of our immune systems is to find a matching key, imagine what would happen if a locksmith is trying to open a lock while the lock itself keeps changing. So our immune system always lags behind a little. That's why we still don't have an effective way of curing something so simple like a common flu and so terrible like HIV. Doesn't matter what drug you come up with, the virus keeps changing! That guarantees some, however small, population of the virus will survive. And give it a couple days/months and millions of generations of viruses, you will have another pandemic in your body.

That's where vaccine comes in. We are introduced with a small population of either dead whole viruses or parts of viruses. This way, we won't get sick while giving our body a chance to manufacture "labeling cells" that match the virus. And our body would then store these matching cells for rainy days. The idea is that we would have these matching cells ready to label viruses as soon as they attack and give them no chance to mutate. The difficult part of this, in the case of flu virus, is that there are hundreds of types of flu virus and we have to have matching cells for each type of them. that's why we have to get flu shots every year. Another problem is that these stored matching cells have shelf life and expire from time to time.

The problem with HIV is that it changes so fast and it's a retrovirus, meaning it injects its own RNA into our own cells. Then our own ells turn these RNA into DNA, which combines with our our own DNA. Then WE ourselves start pumping out viruses. Even if you kill the actual virus, the viral DNA is already in us, much like in the movie "Alien".

One key step in viral infection is the fusion of viral membrane with host cell membrane, which then allows the virus to dump its RNA into host cells. A major trend in the field is to figure out a way to stop this fusion. We actually did some theoretical work on the the process of membrane fusion, which is NOT well known at all.

Sorry about the long post. I get excited whenever people talk about this stuff :D:D:D

thanks!! i remember being introduced to the retroviruses and viruses and basic functions of the immune system back in grade 11. very very basic ideas.

in ur opinion what do you think of the current progress that we are making against aids? can other types of technology can be used to attack AIDS?

and if they figure out what makes it work, what happens next?
 
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vesicles

Colonel
thanks!! i remember being introduced to the retroviruses and viruses and basic functions of the immune system back in grade 11. very very basic ideas.

in ur opinion what do you think of the current progress that we are making against aids? can other types of technology can be used to attack AIDS?

and if they figure out what makes it work, what happens next?

My understanding of this topic is not that great either. I took an Immunology class in graduate school and that's yet. :D

In my opinion, we can only treat symptom and cannot target the root of the problem. And this is not unique to only HIV. If you look at all the major diseases, be it cancer, heart diseases, diabetes..., all we can do is treat symptoms. If one gets cancer, nuke the heck out of him and kill the tumor. We are not looking at the root of the whole thing. Cancers come from bad mutations of our genome. How do we stop these bad mutations from happening? That should be the key. Sadly, our understanding of biology/medicine is still too little for us to comprehend such question. And even more sadly, most of the people, especially those in the position to make policies, have this "myth" that we have mastered biology and we can do whatever we want, such as cloning people and living forever.

In my opinion, using an analogy of our understanding of biology/medicine to a person's life, we are still a teenager working in a fast food joint. We think we are so rich and have all the money in the world (for crying out loud, we go to movies using our own money!). the fact is we are SOOOOO far away from being actually rich, that we can't even comprehend what being rich is. That is, IMHO, where we stand in medicine.
 

vesicles

Colonel
thanks!! i remember being introduced to the retroviruses and viruses and basic functions of the immune system back in grade 11. very very basic ideas.

in ur opinion what do you think of the current progress that we are making against aids? can other types of technology can be used to attack AIDS?

and if they figure out what makes it work, what happens next?

Sorry about the ranting. To answer your question, once they figure out how it works, they will move to pharmacology side of things, like formulation, delivery, duration, efficacy, and doses, etc. Then clinical trials. the whole thing will take at least 15 years, assuming they figure out the mechanism tomorrow. Because this is a vaccine, the development process will likely take longer. Since we are talking about injecting something into a perfectly healthy human being, the vaccine has to be extremely safe.

Other technology? How about nanotechnology? It's a buzz-word and sounds sexy... I honestly have no idea how nanotechnology would help in this case.

Seriously, I believe the key should be fusion: how to stop the virus from fusing with our own cells. that should be the key. Unfortunately, our understanding of membrane fusion in general is still lacking. One of my colleagues is an expert in membrane fusion and he will tell you that they are still fighting about the actual mechanism of fusion process, aside from the more difficult questions like how it is initiated and controlled. You can search the term "hemifusion" and see what people say about it...
 
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