To buy or not to buy: Su-35, Su-30MKI, or Su-37?

Hey everyone I have a question. I collect 1:48 4-5th generation fighter jets models, and currently I am looking to expand my air fleet. I pick my choices carefully, as when I choose them, I base it on their symbolic value in history(significance in wars, evolution/generation of modern aerial warfare technology), but also their competitiveness and capabilities. In addition, I look at the specific class breed and nationality they represent.

Now moving on, currently I have a fleet of (1/48 class):

- Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor_______(Hasegawa, 5th generation, USAF) [COMPLETED]
- Boeing F-15C Eagle________________(Tamiya, 4th generation, USAF) [COMPLETED]
- Chengdu J-10B____________________(Trumpeter, 4.5 generation, canard-delta, PLAAF) [COMPLETED]
- Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon_(Tamiya, 4th generation, USAF)
- Boeing F-18E/F Superhornet_________(Revell, 4th generation, USN)
- Eurofighter_______________________(Revell, 4.5 generation, canard-delta, NATO/RAF/Luftwaffe)
- Dassault Rafale____________________(Revell, 4th generation, canard-delta, Armee de l' air France)
- Boeing F-15K Strike Eagle___________(4th generation, ROKAF,USAF)

Others
- Boeing AH-64D Apache Longbow_____(Hasegawa, Attack Helicopter)
- Chinook__________________________(Academy)
- Black Hawk_______________________(Academy)

Future
- Mirage 2000______________________(4th generation, canard-delta, Armee de l' air France)
- Mig-35__________________________(4th generation, RuAF) [Operational variant]
- Su-??___________________________(4th generation, RuAF)
- PAK-FA_________________________ (5th generation, RuAF) [Operational variant]
- J-20____________________________(5th generation, PLAAF) [Operational variant]
- J-21____________________________(5th generation, PLAAF) [Operational variant]
- F-35?___________________________(5th generation, USAF/NATO/Blue) [Operational variant]
- F-15SE__________________________(4.5++ generation, USAF) [Operational variant]
- E-2 Hawkeye_____________________(

Others
- Leopard 2A6_______________________(Germany, CF, MBT)
- M1A2_____________________________(US Army, MBT)
- Challenger 2_______________________(British Army, MBT)
- Type 99A2_________________________(PLA, MBT)
- Merkava___________________________(IDF, MBT)

Anyways from my line-up there, you can get a picture of what I pick. They are all very competitive and they each represent different class breeds and nationality. For example, J-10B, Eurofighter, Rafale will represent the delta-canard trio and their respective nationalities, while F-15, F-18, F-16 represents the US group. With all that said, here is my question:

I am looking to get something from the Russia side to represent their 4th generation fighters. Naturally I'm considering a Flanker because it will represent Cobra, China's lines of J-11/15/16, and all the Flanker families(Su-27,30,30MKI,33,34,35,37). The question now would be, which Flanker should I get? Should I get the..:

1. Su-30MKI? It contains TVC and canards. I'm attracted to the Su-30MKI's canards as they will look very nice/special amongst all the other jets which only have 2 sets of surfaces, while Su-30MKI will have 3. Looks nice.
2. Su-35? Just want someone to confirm that the Su-35 contains either TVC or canards or both. A split decision between Su-30MKI and Su-35 because Su-35 boasts of a lot of other upgrades, but the TVC may not make much of a scene visually. Of course I'm also surprised no countries outside of Russia had considered the Su-35 for purchase at all up to this moment. Anyone know the particular reasons?
3. Su-37? It's got colorful camoflague, TVC, canards, but it's only a technology demonstrator, and as far as I recall, it was never armed

So with all that's been said, what do you guys, the expert, suggest? Please explain your choice if you may.
Thank you

airsuperiority said:

Hey everyone I have a question. I collect 1:48 4-5th generation fighter jets models, and currently I am looking to expand my air fleet. I pick my choices carefully, as when I choose them, I base it on their symbolic value in history(significance in wars, evolution/generation of modern aerial warfare technology), but also their competitiveness and capabilities. In addition, I look at the specific class breed and nationality they represent.

Now moving on, currently I have a fleet of (1/48 class):

- Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor_______(Hasegawa, 5th generation, USAF) [COMPLETED]
- Boeing F-15C Eagle________________(Tamiya, 4th generation, USAF) [COMPLETED]
- Chengdu J-10B____________________(Trumpeter, 4.5 generation, canard-delta, PLAAF) [COMPLETED]
- Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon_(Tamiya, 4th generation, USAF)
- Boeing F-18E/F Superhornet_________(Revell, 4th generation, USN)
- Eurofighter_______________________(Revell, 4.5 generation, canard-delta, NATO/RAF/Luftwaffe)
- Dassault Rafale____________________(Revell, 4th generation, canard-delta, Armee de l' air France)
- Boeing F-15K Strike Eagle___________(4th generation, ROKAF,USAF)

Others
- Boeing AH-64D Apache Longbow_____(Hasegawa, Attack Helicopter)
- Chinook__________________________(Academy)
- Black Hawk_______________________(Academy)

Future
- Mirage 2000______________________(4th generation, canard-delta, Armee de l' air France)
- Mig-35__________________________(4th generation, RuAF) [Operational variant]
- Su-??___________________________(4th generation, RuAF)
- PAK-FA_________________________ (5th generation, RuAF) [Operational variant]
- J-20____________________________(5th generation, PLAAF) [Operational variant]
- J-21____________________________(5th generation, PLAAF) [Operational variant]
- F-35?___________________________(5th generation, USAF/NATO/Blue) [Operational variant]
- F-15SE__________________________(4.5++ generation, USAF) [Operational variant]
- E-2 Hawkeye_____________________(

Others
- Leopard 2A6_______________________(Germany, CF, MBT)
- M1A2_____________________________(US Army, MBT)
- Challenger 2_______________________(British Army, MBT)
- Type 99A2_________________________(PLA, MBT)
- Merkava___________________________(IDF, MBT)

Anyways from my line-up there, you can get a picture of what I pick. They are all very competitive and they each represent different class breeds and nationality. For example, J-10B, Eurofighter, Rafale will represent the delta-canard trio and their respective nationalities, while F-15, F-18, F-16 represents the US group. With all that said, here is my question:

I am looking to get something from the Russia side to represent their 4th generation fighters. Naturally I'm considering a Flanker because it will represent Cobra, China's lines of J-11/15/16, and all the Flanker families(Su-27,30,30MKI,33,34,35,37). The question now would be, which Flanker should I get? Should I get the..:

1. Su-30MKI? It contains TVC and canards
2. Su-35? Just want someone to confirm that the Su-35 contains either TVC or canards or both.
3. Su-37? It's got colorful camoflague, TVC, canards, but it's only a technology demonstrator, and as far as I recall, it was never armed

So with all that's been said, what do you guys, the expert, suggest? Please explain your choice if you may.
Thank you

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I would go with Su-37 because of th Kulbit maneuver. That's something no one else can do.

vesicles said:

I would go with Su-37 because of th Kulbit maneuver. That's something no one else can do.

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Thanks! Actually should I still collect a Mikoyan, such as Mig-35?

(On the side note, I find it sad that the Su-37 was utterly destroyed when it crashed. If only it went into full production and armed with ordinance and the newest avionics, it's a wonder if it can match the Eurofighter)

airsuperiority said:

Thanks! Actually should I still collect a Mikoyan, such as Mig-35?

(On the side note, I find it sad that the Su-37 was utterly destroyed when it crashed. If only it went into full production and armed with ordinance and the newest avionics, it's a wonder if it can match the Eurofighter)

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I think Su-37 is more unique than Su-35. It would not hurt to have both, but Su-37 would be my 1st choice. I too was kinda disappointed that Su-37 didnt get to the production stage. It's such a cool plane. I stil remember the 1st time I saw a video of Su-37 doing the Kulbit. I was still in college at the time and was in the computer lab when I found the video. I must've seen it at least a dozen times back to back that night.

Well, looking at what you own, it seems you generally go for the latest iteration of a significant type. Therefore, the "basic" Su-27 is out of the question, even though it started the Flanker legacy.
Additionally, all of your models are those of A/C in active duty with different air forces. So since you don't collect tech demonstrators or prototypes, I'd say Su-37 is out. Even though it is a cool plane.
I would also opt out the MKI, since it's an indian plane, and for my personal taste that doesn't really reflect nicely on the sovjet/russian legacy of the Flanker, having it on those colors. Considering you also sort by nation/region.
So one of the two options in my mind would be Su-30SM, wich is basicly a russian AF version of MKI, also having canards.

Then we come to the Su-35. Initially a modified Su-27 with canards & other stuff for maneuverability upgrades. There's only a few of those in service with the Russian Knights.
The plane was further upgraded with new avionics and stuff as the Su-35BM, canards now gone again. The RuAF will acquire those as the Su-35S. Wich makes it the second option, IMO.

I'd personaly go with that second one, as it represents the latest iteration of the Flanker, and is one that was primarily developed for service with it's coutry of origin. Therefore I feel it might fit best into your collection.
Even though the -30SM with it's three pairs of surfaces may look cooler.

On a side note, I'd definitely also go with a MiG-29 variant, to relflect on the russian light / heavy mix, as you did with F-15 / F-16.
For reasons stated above, I'd skip on the MiG-35, as it is nowhere in service, same with MiG-29OVT or -29M.
That leaves you with the -29SMT, wich is already a bit older, or maybe the latest K variant, wich will also have a future in the RuN, after starting off in India.

Hope that helps a little ...,cheers

All flanker variants (aside from Su-33/34) look very alike, so if you're thinking of getting one for physical differentiation, it's really up to you between the canard MKI and Su-37 (both of which look virtually identical), or the canardless Su-35(S) which looks basically like a vanilla Su-27.

If it's for the history/capability of the aircraft itself, I would go for the Su-35(S) rather than MKI or Su-37.

Su-37 was a tech demonstrator, regardless of how formidable as its maneuvering was, and the MKI is an aircraft not in service with the VVS at all, which seems a little off to me if you seek to choose an aircraft to represent an entire family built by Russia.

Su-35(S) would be my choice, that is, the canard-less version. To me, it is the ultimate flanker, with all of the lessons from MKI, Su-37, MKK, and various innovations like a moving PESA, new engines, boiled into a single successor (apart from PAK FA teehee ). Further, in terms of capability, it will be the most competitive with its rivals such as the F-15Cs, which will soon be refitted with AESAs, as many VVS Su-27s only have limited BVR capabilities if I remember correctly which Su-35S will rectify. (And yes I believe Su-35S is equipped with TVC, no canards, and personally I think it looks better without.)

Scratch said:

Well, looking at what you own, it seems you generally go for the latest iteration of a significant type. Therefore, the "basic" Su-27 is out of the question, even though it started the Flanker legacy.
Additionally, all of your models are those of A/C in active duty with different air forces. So since you don't collect tech demonstrators or prototypes, I'd say Su-37 is out. Even though it is a cool plane.
I would also opt out the MKI, since it's an indian plane, and for my personal taste that doesn't really reflect nicely on the sovjet/russian legacy of the Flanker, having it on those colors. Considering you also sort by nation/region.
So one of the two options in my mind would be Su-30SM, wich is basicly a russian AF version of MKI, also having canards.

Then we come to the Su-35. Initially a modified Su-27 with canards & other stuff for maneuverability upgrades. There's only a few of those in service with the Russian Knights.
The plane was further upgraded with new avionics and stuff as the Su-35BM, canards now gone again. The RuAF will acquire those as the Su-35S. Wich makes it the second option, IMO.

I'd personaly go with that second one, as it represents the latest iteration of the Flanker, and is one that was primarily developed for service with it's coutry of origin. Therefore I feel it might fit best into your collection.
Even though the -30SM with it's three pairs of surfaces may look cooler.

On a side note, I'd definitely also go with a MiG-29 variant, to relflect on the russian light / heavy mix, as you did with F-15 / F-16.
For reasons stated above, I'd skip on the MiG-35, as it is nowhere in service, same with MiG-29OVT or -29M.
That leaves you with the -29SMT, wich is already a bit older, or maybe the latest K variant, wich will also have a future in the RuN, after starting off in India.

Hope that helps a little ...,cheers

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Bltizo said:

All flanker variants (aside from Su-33/34) look very alike, so if you're thinking of getting one for physical differentiation, it's really up to you between the canard MKI and Su-37 (both of which look virtually identical), or the canardless Su-35(S) which looks basically like a vanilla Su-27.

If it's for the history/capability of the aircraft itself, I would go for the Su-35(S) rather than MKI or Su-37.

Su-37 was a tech demonstrator, regardless of how formidable as its maneuvering was, and the MKI is an aircraft not in service with the VVS at all, which seems a little off to me if you seek to choose an aircraft to represent an entire family built by Russia.

Su-35(S) would be my choice, that is, the canard-less version. To me, it is the ultimate flanker, with all of the lessons from MKI, Su-37, MKK, and various innovations like a moving PESA, new engines, boiled into a single successor (apart from PAK FA teehee ). Further, in terms of capability, it will be the most competitive with its rivals such as the F-15Cs, which will soon be refitted with AESAs, as many VVS Su-27s only have limited BVR capabilities if I remember correctly which Su-35S will rectify. (And yes I believe Su-35S is equipped with TVC, no canards, and personally I think it looks better without.)

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Thanks guys! Seems like Su-35 is in the lead, with one for Su-37, and no one for Su-30MKI.
Do you guys know why no one so far wants the Su-35 outside of Russia?

airsuperiority said:

Thanks guys! Seems like Su-35 is in the lead, with one for Su-37, and no one for Su-30MKI.
Do you guys know why no one so far wants the Su-35 outside of Russia?

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I think it is a function of cost, capability, and saturated market.

I think Su-35 is a noticeably more expensive aircraft than existing popular variants such as the MKI/M, MKK/2. Further, some of the capabilities it offers that causes its inflated price tag may not be seen as necessary by Russia's usual customers. That is to say, the advanced Irbis radar, 117S engine, rear facing radar, massively overhauled cockpit and provision for all types of weapons on what is a single seater, may be too much of a good thing on a single plane that other nations may not be able to afford and afford to operate (not to mention more difficult to get maintenance/parts for the Su-35S compared to other "MK" export variants). "Traditional" Russian customers that do have a requirement for such a fighter either already have such planes, such as India with the very Su-35-like MKI, or can build similarly capable planes by themselves, such as China with J-11B/16, while other customers such as venezuela, vietnam, malaysia etc already operate small fleets of MK flankers which offer potent A2A and A2G capability and may not necessarily require the bells and whistles on Su-35S.

I'm sure in due time some country will end up impressed enough to be a small batch. Hell, it wouldnt' be a bad idea for the PLAAF to purchase a regiment or two to make up the numbers of heavy weight air superiority fighters as J-11B production winds down, while giving good experience operating a TVC equipped fighter to simulate other planes in close quarters DACT.

Bltizo said:

I think it is a function of cost, capability, and saturated market.

I think Su-35 is a noticeably more expensive aircraft than existing popular variants such as the MKI/M, MKK/2. Further, some of the capabilities it offers that causes its inflated price tag may not be seen as necessary by Russia's usual customers. That is to say, the advanced Irbis radar, 117S engine, rear facing radar, massively overhauled cockpit and provision for all types of weapons on what is a single seater, may be too much of a good thing on a single plane that other nations may not be able to afford and afford to operate (not to mention more difficult to get maintenance/parts for the Su-35S compared to other "MK" export variants). "Traditional" Russian customers that do have a requirement for such a fighter either already have such planes, such as India with the very Su-35-like MKI, or can build similarly capable planes by themselves, such as China with J-11B/16, while other customers such as venezuela, vietnam, malaysia etc already operate small fleets of MK flankers which offer potent A2A and A2G capability and may not necessarily require the bells and whistles on Su-35S.

I'm sure in due time some country will end up impressed enough to be a small batch. Hell, it wouldnt' be a bad idea for the PLAAF to purchase a regiment or two to make up the numbers of heavy weight air superiority fighters as J-11B production winds down, while giving good experience operating a TVC equipped fighter to simulate other planes in close quarters DACT.

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Thanks man! Very informative. I guess in other words you're saying the Su-35 is too advanced/smart for those small countries. I sorta think that Su-35 is probably too expensive of a deal, although I will indeed quite like to see China possessing a squadron or 2 of those. Maybe China can then come out with an upgraded variant of the Su-35 that's even lighter and "silent."

airsuperiority said:

Thanks man! Very informative. I guess in other words you're saying the Su-35 is too advanced/smart for those small countries. I sorta think that Su-35 is probably too expensive of a deal, although I will indeed quite like to see China possessing a squadron or 2 of those. Maybe China can then come out with an upgraded variant of the Su-35 that's even lighter and "silent."

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No problem!

I think Su-35S offers capabilities that are unnecessarily high end and costly for its existing customers; but then again it was always developed for the VVS rather than the export market; that is what the MK series are for.

It would be good for China to possess two regiments or so worth of Su-35S, to make up the numbers, but it would also be good for the chinese aerospace industry to look at what the Russians have been up to in the last few years and see if they can glean anything from the 117S engine. I don't expect Su-35S would offer anything that would dramatically enhance the industry's existing momentum, and I certainly don't think SAC (for it will be SAC if it was ever suggested) should consider REing it, as they can build a similarly good plane in J-11B/16. Certainly I don't think it would be wise or cost effective to develop a "stealthy" flanker. I think SAC will soon have exhausted everything they could out of new flanker variants like J-15, J-16, apart from upgrading existing flankers. The only flanker variant which I would like to see is a twin seater "special mission" J-15 that can conduct the likes of EW, tanking, SEAD (assuming all J-15s only need minimal modification to use future catapults on CATOBAR carriers when they come).
Also, PLAAF probably haven't trained much with fighters with TVC, which could become an important factor in future close quarters battle with opposing fighters like F-22 or MKIs. Even having a single regiment serving as a dedicated blue force would not go unwasted.