Thermobaric weapons - killer extordinaire

sandyj

Junior Member
Forbidden

June 16, 2008:

British AH-64 helicopter gunships in Afghanistan recently used a new weapon; a Hellfire missile with a thermobaric warhead. British commanders ordered the thermobaric Hellfires two years ago. But it took nearly that long for the politicians and military bureaucrats to do their thing, and get the missiles to the troops.

Thermobaric warheads operate by dispersing an inflammable mist, then igniting it. This produces an explosion that kills by sucking the oxygen out of the surrounding areas, as well as creating a powerful blast. Fired into a building, the thermobaric explosion would kill more people inside, and do less damage to adjacent structures. These warheads work better on caves than any other kind of weapon. Thermobaric warheads have been used with great success in shoulder fired rocket launchers. U.S. Troops have been using these for several years, as well as the Hellfire missiles so equipped.

British politicians were fearful of media backlash. Some European media have demonized thermobaric weapons, depicting them as inhumane. Exactly how a thermobaric explosive is less humane than any other weapon is never investigated with much vigor. Apparently thermobaric is bad, if only because the Americans use them. Actually, it was the Russians who first developed small thermobaric warheads. Since the Europeans consider the Russians a bunch of barbarians (a centuries old tradition, which goes a long way to explain why the Russians are so leery of Western Europeans), this all somehow fits together.

Europeans have a long history of trying to outlaw "inhumane" weapons. One of the earliest efforts was against the cross bow. However, this terrible weapon (which enabled a poorly trained commoner to easily bring down an armored aristocrat on horseback), could be used against Moslems, and other non-Christians. The thermobaric Hellfire will mostly be used to kill Moslems.
 

sandyj

Junior Member
the video did not work in the russian part ---- poster note

The "Father" of All Bombs
The Russkies are at it again.

Back to their “we can do things bigger and better than the United States,” Soviet-style mode, the Russian military has recently tested their version of the U.S. Massive Ordnance Air-blast Bomb, or MOAB.

Here’s Russian news video. I can read a bit of Russian but would be psyched for our international readers to give us more of the gist.
According to a Reuters story we found and what I can read in Cyrillic from the video, the Russian “Father of All Bombs” – we’ll call it the FOAB, for now – weighs 7100 kilograms vs. the MOAB’s 8200KG, has an explosive yield of 44 tons of TNT equivalent compared to the MOAB’s 11 tons and has a destructive radius of 300 meters vice 150 meters.

When you look at the video, you can see the ground where the FOAB went off looks like a lunar landscape...

As all things that go boom, this is pretty darned impressive.

The Reuters story follows the video:



MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia has tested the world's most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the "father of all bombs".

The bomb is the latest in a series of new Russian weapons and policy moves as President Vladimir Putin tries to reassert Moscow's role on the international stage.

"Test results of the new airborne weapon have shown that its efficiency and power is commensurate with a nuclear weapon," Alexander Rukshin, Russian deputy armed forces chief of staff, told Russia's state ORT First Channel television. The same report was later shown on the state-sponsored Vesti channel.

"You will now see it in action, the bomb which has no match in the world is being tested at a military site."

It showed a Tupolev Tu-160 strategic bomber dropping the bomb over a testing ground. A large explosion followed.

Pictures showed what looked like a flattened multi-storey block of flats surrounded by scorched soil and boulders. "The soil looks like a lunar landscape," the report said.

"The defense ministry stresses this military invention does not contradict a single international treaty. Russia is not unleashing a new arms race."

Such devices generally detonate in two stages. First a small blast disperses a main load of explosive material into a cloud, which then either spontaneously ignites in air or is set off by a second charge.

This explosion generates a pressure wave that reaches much further than that from a conventional explosive. The consumption of gases in the blast also generates a partial vacuum that can compound damage and injuries caused by the explosion itself.

"The main destruction is inflicted by an ultrasonic shockwave and an incredibly high temperature," the reports said. "All that is alive merely evaporates."
 

sandyj

Junior Member
fae bomb how it works and its effects
4665_thermobaric_expl.jpg

4665_thermobaric_expl.jpg

the beginnings
4665_thermobaric_expl.jpg

the end result
4665_thermobaric_expl.jpg
 

sandyj

Junior Member
Fire Weapons
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Witness how fire has become a terrifying weapon of mass destruction, burning hotter, harder and longer - from the simple Molotov cocktail to the awesome destructive power of today's thermobaric bombs.

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themobaric weapons
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sandyj

Junior Member
QUOTE(Pinzgauer @ Sep 11 2007, 12:40 PM)

Just a quick question (after reading top few posts on this page): The issue seems to be with the type of injuries caused by thermobaric effects. But what remains unclear is whether this concerns injuries to people who survive. Brutal in my book are horrible injuries by a weapon designed to NOT be lethal (e.g. AP mines). If you're killed outright, in a blink, you may not look pretty but you don't suffer unnecessarily. So, the question is: what is the injuries issue really about? Is it about how people are killed, or about injuries in any survivors (are there generally any?)


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the survivors of thermobaric weapons all have at a miniumum 2nd degree burns to 50 to 90 % third degree burns which are unsurviable.

If they do not have burns, then the concussion and the tremedous heat sears the throat and lungs , and causes the heart to collapse under the primary as well as the secondary pressure waves created by the blast. this is one of the reasons that thermobaric weapons are called the atomic weapons on the cheap.

they react the same way as an atomic blast acts only in a smaller area. this is done by using up all avaiable oxygen and other gasses in that area, as the cloud forms from the canister mixing with the surrounding gasses . with the igniters right behind the intial formed cloud, lighting it up, and then you have cause and effect of the blast causing the major damage. the smaller the target area is the greater the damage. point in fact --- that a 40 mm thermobaric grenade can level a three story building killing all inside. boiling out eye balls , frying tounges inside the mouth even if it is closed, causing lungs to expand then explode inside the body. peeling all exposed flesh right down to the bone in almost an instant.

this is one reason why you will never find pictures of the after effects of this weapon after it has been used. the closest you will find the end results would be to look at the surviors of Hiroshima or Nagasaki
just after those weapons were used. the effects are the same with out any radiation poisning.

hope this answer some of your questions on this subject sandyj
 

sandyj

Junior Member
same results - different concept

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poster note

German Reverse Fuel Air Weapon

By David Hambling

September 18, 2007 | 9:15:00 AM

Last week I wrote about fuel-air and themobaric weapons, in which the warhead relies on taking oxygen from the surroundings to explode. But there's a german concept which turns this idea on its head: rather than having a warhead made of fuel which requires oxidiser, the warhead is the oxidiser and the target itself provides the fuel.

bf109_shoot_b172.jpg


Described in a 1974 patent for Flammability promoting ammunition for use against airborne targets , the invention is intended to overcome the shortcomings of existing anti-aircraft warheads:

When a round of ammunition strikes a target, we distinguish between the gas shock effect, the fragmentation effect and the incendiary effect produced. Due to the smaller caliber of the projectiles employed, the gas shock effect is generally not sufficient to break or destroy wings, fuselage or engine of the airplane, because of the limited amount of explosive. The fragmentation effect alone does not always lead to the complete destruction of the airplane...Experience has shown that planes exposed to the fragmentation effect alone often are able to return to their base or at least to a safe landing area. However, rapid destruction of an airplane is accomplished if it is set on fire, since it is rarely possible to extinguish a fully blazing fire.

Though an airplane has sufficient combustible material to support a fire, the problem still exists for anti-aircraft guns to ignite the material. Such ignition is possible only if the fuel and oil on board, such as propellents and lubricants, are caused to flow from their containers and pipes by the explosion of a shell..... It is particularly disadvantageous that the gas shock produced by the detonation of the explosive and producing low oxygen or inert gas clouds which displaces the air at the point of impact and, as a result, also displaces oxygen at the decisive moment of impact, and even if additional explosive is supplied, either no fire results or one of extremely short duration which is quenched by the impact force. Further, a direct hit in the fuel tank does not guarantee that a fire will develop. ...In summary, it can be stated that even at the present time the most reliable way of destroying an airplane, namely, by setting it on fire, is only possible with a certain degree of probability with the known types of ammunition used against an airborne target.

Therefore, it is the primary object of the present invention to provide a type of ammunition which increases the likelihood of flammability of an airborne target if it is struck. In the present invention, the increased probability of flammability is provided by the use of oxygen releasing carrier material which releases oxygen when one or several explosive charges are detonated as a shell or round of ammunition strikes a target....

In accordance with the present invention, the following substances are preferably used as oxygen releasing carriers: sodium nitrate (NaNO.sub.3) and/or potassium nitrate (KNO.sub.3) and/or potassium chlorate (KClO.sub.3) and/or potassium perchlorate (KClO.sub.4) and/or potassium permanganate (KMnO.sub.4), which release free oxygen during the detonation of the explosive due to the action of heat and pressure...

A special problem solved by the invention involves the manner in which the ammunition, after its detonation, (within the target, against the target, and before or during its flight over the target) provides splinters, oxygen releasing carriers and flammability producing material which acts against the target not only with each other but also in a time delay manner.

The patent is assigned to German company Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm GmbH. I don't know whether any anti-aircraft warheads actually use this technology -- makers don't give away too many details -- but it shows that as with fuel-air weapons, it's possible to make something a lot more destructive than straight high explosives.
 

sandyj

Junior Member
your not even close on this oone. thermobaric weapons are the poor mans atomic bomb

Napalm is designed for outdoor use , braod spectrum spray and pray weapon. Thermobarics are designed to be used at the mouth of caves, buildings fortified structures its primary weapon is the blast and over pressure from the fireball it creates,

frying everythig in its way as well as knocking it down as an afterthought. read the above results posting for that .

todays bunker busters are now thermobaric in design as well as in usage. it makes the cookie cutter design look nice by comparison. there are basicaly no survivors from the use of a thermobaric device. atleast i have ot heard of any that survived for long.

when a 40mm thermobaric grenade can take down a 3 story building and kill everything inside it , this is not napalm but one of the most brutal and inhumane weapons in use today. the cluster bomb kills over a longer period only for the fact that that is what it is designed to do. as opposed to a thermobaric weapons usage. third degree burns as well as imploded internal body organs is not a nice way to go if you should survive the intial blast. the agony alone of just trying to breath is tremendous, through scorched wind pipes and seared lungs.
 

Norfolk

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Red Mercury is more or less spot on. For a time (WWII until about Vietnam), napalm was used in flamethrowers, until napalm was replaced by triethylaluminium (even worse). Flamethrower men would flame trenches, bunkers, pillboxes, etc., and even caves. In the case of caves and tunnels, where the flame might not reach far enough to kill the occupants directly, the flamethrowers would be used to burn up all the oxygen inside, and then the cave or tunnel mouths would be demolished with explosives. Even napalm air strikes often killed occupants of bunkers without even coming close to the victims, just by consuming all the oxygen and asphyxiating the occupants of said bunker.

Thermobarics, like other FAE's, are undoubtedly effective, but they are quite horrific and cruel. The British Army has eschewed thermobarics in favour of enhanced-blast weapons for the same purposes in infantry units. Less cruel at least.:(
 

sandyj

Junior Member
i have pics of the effects of thermobaric weapons in use , but i can nt find were i placed them at, if i find them i will publish them. you will not beoeve the effects on humans caught by them. cut in half arms and legs blown off togther totaly unrecognizable.

any way you cut it the are not nice
 
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