Role of towed anti tank gun?

Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
“The biggest enemy is not other tanks but anti tank guns” Wittman tank ace on the Soviet front.

It seems the AT missile has took precedent. For reasons to do with manoeuvrability, no recoil and ease of concealment. Thus the only benefits off anti guns are due to relatively being cheaper to use because systems like Sprut 125mm shares same ammo as T 80 and T 90 including missile launch capability. Still concealment is not that difficult because they have a low profile. With the systems of Arena, Shora and Trophy there is a good chance current missiles will be blocked.


I still envisage a role for anti tank guns cause they can contribute direct and indirect fire plus installed with an APU the chance of survival is increased. The Chinese leadership have rightly been focusing on modernising PLAAF and Navy. So AT gun is very low priority.

So should dedicated new AT guns not be made? Is there still a role for them?
 
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hallo84

New Member
Baibar of Jalat said:
“The biggest enemy is not other tanks but anti tank guns” Wittman tank ace on the Soviet front.

It seems the AT missile has took precedent. For reasons to do with manoeuvrability, no recoil and ease of concealment. Thus the only benefits off anti guns are due to relatively being cheaper to use because systems like Sprut 125mm shares same ammo as T 80 and T 90 including missile launch capability. Still concealment is not that difficult because they have a low profile. With the systems of Arena, Shora and Trophy there is a good chance current missiles will be blocked.


I still envisage a role for anti tank guns cause they can contribute direct and indirect fire plus installed with an APU the chance of survival is increased. The Chinese leadership have rightly been focusing on modernising PLAAF and Navy. So AT gun is very low priority.

So should dedicated new AT guns not be made? Is there still a role for them?
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There are already SP AT guns on both tracked and wheeled chasis so what's the point of making a new one?
 
Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
hallo84 said:
There are already SP AT guns on both tracked and wheeled chasis so what's the point of making a new one?
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In regards to Chinese inventory all of them are based on old tech according to Sinodefence. I might be wrong the most advance at moment is Sprut but that is very old 80s and 90s tech.

So is it worthwhile to develop modern one based on new advances?
 
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montyp165

Senior Member
Weight is an issue with AT guns, as even during WWII guns greater than 75mm became very cumbersome to maneuver into battle, which is why shape charge rockets and recoilless guns became popular replacements.
 
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challenge

Banned Idiot
basically it's armour vs.gun race, tank with thicker armour,the next day,larger calibre gun.to a point the AT gun get so heavy and large,such as German PAK-44 128mm ATG.
new gen. AT gun are multi role sych as D-30 122mm gun/howitzer,during the 1973 arab israel war the D-30 report credit with 12 tank killed.
 
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RedMercury

Junior Member
A well-dug in AT-gun might be more stealthy in a defensive role than a tank, but once it is spotted, it's pretty much dead, since modern tank guns are accurate and their munitions more lethal.
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
Manportable systems, like the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle and the AT-4 have made the towed AT gun obsolete. Such weapons are more portable, easier to hide, and more flexible.
 
Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Recoiless rifles are important but due to design can only fire HEAT rounds.

Mobility is the key issue highlighted from everyones posts. Solution, a dedicated AT and assualt gun vehicle like the Panzer 1 mounted with 15cm assualt gun.

Question is will China invest again in a new dedicated tank destroyer/ assualt vehicle. Replacing the 100 mm guns mounted on Armoured vehicles.
 
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montyp165

Senior Member
Baibar of Jalat said:
Recoiless rifles are important but due to design can only fire HEAT rounds.

Mobility is the key issue highlighted from everyones posts. Solution, a dedicated AT and assualt gun vehicle like the Panzer 1 mounted with 15cm assualt gun.

Question is will China invest again in a new dedicated tank destroyer/ assualt vehicle. Replacing the 100 mm guns mounted on Armoured vehicles.
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The PLA already has a Type 89 tank destroyer with a 120mm main gun, the thing is though the best tank killer in the world is still a tank.
 
Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
montyp165 said:
The PLA already has a Type 89 tank destroyer with a 120mm main gun, the thing is though the best tank killer in the world is still a tank.
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Production is ended. PLA have decided to end thus showing their opinion on these systems. I think it is a little premature to entirely abondon idea. On your point Type 89 gun technology is decades old if you read Sinodefence page you will see how long it took to develop and how 125mm smoothbore was chosen instead.

Whether it is a towed gun with APU making it mobile or put on a vehicle, it should atleast be capable as tank guns such as on Type 99. Plus fire all the same munitions.
 
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