PLAN 6th gen carrierborne fighter thread

[by78]

It might be time to start a thread on future manned carrier combat aircraft that will come after the J-35. As a thread starter, I will share an

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on control laws for precision landing a flying wing aircraft on a carrier. Of course, illustrations of the aircraft in this paper are merely a placeholder and not to be taken literally, and the existence of this paper does not necessarily imply that Chengdu is seriously developing such an aircraft.

 

[by78]

(Continued from above...)

 

[Tomboy]

I thought the consensus was that the Shenyang aircraft will be the carrier aircraft? Or will they somehow put the J-36 on a carrier cause having a third 6th gen in testing or development seems rather unrealistic due to cost.

 

[Iron Man]

I thought the consensus was that the Shenyang aircraft will be the carrier aircraft? Or will they somehow put the J-36 on a carrier cause having a third 6th gen in testing or development seems rather unrealistic due to cost.

I believe the "consensus" was reached by merely the presence of two front wheels on the "J-50". OTOH this feature by itself does not guarantee a carrier-based fighter. The J-10 also has two front wheels, for example. If we ever get closeup photos of the J-50 and see creases for folding wings, that would be a far stronger indicator of a carrier-based design IMO. As for the J-36, I think it is way too large to put on a carrier.

 

[Tomboy]

As for the J-36, I think it is way too large to put on a carrier.

If that's the case, then there could potentially be a third aircraft in development?

Anyhow, I came across a rather interesting concept: Stealth penetration bomber on carrier. I was over on secretprojectfourms and found a mention to the ATA program in the 80s



Since right now the Chinese carrier fleet do not seem to have any deep penetration striker/bombers to provide air support in a densely defended area as J-35s unlike the F-35 do not seem to be designed with strike as a primary mission parameter instead being mostly for air superiority and fleet defense. Perhaps it would be better for them to have a separate aircraft for this purpose like the ATA program, it could take the form of a large drone plausibly a design based on an enlarged navalized CH-7 or a manned aircraft or maybe honestly they could just somehow put the J-36 on the deck of a carrier. Potentially with the 004 rumored to be even larger than the G.R Ford class, fitting a few J-36s on a carrier shouldn't be much of an issue, possibly requiring them to further reinforce the deck to take the force such a large aircraft landing but being fair the US landed a C-130 with an empty weight of 83000 pounds on a carrier once.

Sure, the H-20 could probably perform these strikes if needed but I believe having dedicated VLO strikers or atleast a stealth multirole aircraft that could carry cruise missiles and large guided bombs on carriers will greatly shorten response time especially with China not having airbases around the world. I believe this might be a good way to massively increase PLA's projection of power without relying on third party bases aboard.

 

[iBBz]

If that's the case, then there could potentially be a third aircraft in development?

Anyhow, I came across a rather interesting concept: Stealth penetration bomber on carrier. I was over on secretprojectfourms and found a mention to the ATA program in the 80s

View attachment 147562

Since right now the Chinese carrier fleet do not seem to have any deep penetration striker/bombers to provide air support in a densely defended area as J-35s unlike the F-35 do not seem to be designed with strike as a primary mission parameter instead being mostly for air superiority and fleet defense. Perhaps it would be better for them to have a separate aircraft for this purpose like the ATA program, it could take the form of a large drone plausibly a design based on an enlarged navalized CH-7 or a manned aircraft or maybe honestly they could just somehow put the J-36 on the deck of a carrier. Potentially with the 004 rumored to be even larger than the G.R Ford class, fitting a few J-36s on a carrier shouldn't be much of an issue, possibly requiring them to further reinforce the deck to take the force such a large aircraft landing but being fair the US landed a C-130 with an empty weight of 83000 pounds on a carrier once.

Sure, the H-20 could probably perform these strikes if needed but I believe having dedicated VLO strikers or atleast a stealth multirole aircraft that could carry cruise missiles and large guided bombs on carriers will greatly shorten response time especially with China not having airbases around the world. I believe this might be a good way to massively increase PLA's projection of power without relying on third party bases aboard.

The A-12 Avenger. It was supposed to be much smaller and and lighter than a J-36. 17.5tons empty, a fighter like number. I'm not sure why it was cancelled, but it is a very interesting aircraft.

 

[Iron Man]

If that's the case, then there could potentially be a third aircraft in development?

Anyhow, I came across a rather interesting concept: Stealth penetration bomber on carrier. I was over on secretprojectfourms and found a mention to the ATA program in the 80s

View attachment 147562

Since right now the Chinese carrier fleet do not seem to have any deep penetration striker/bombers to provide air support in a densely defended area as J-35s unlike the F-35 do not seem to be designed with strike as a primary mission parameter instead being mostly for air superiority and fleet defense. Perhaps it would be better for them to have a separate aircraft for this purpose like the ATA program, it could take the form of a large drone plausibly a design based on an enlarged navalized CH-7 or a manned aircraft or maybe honestly they could just somehow put the J-36 on the deck of a carrier. Potentially with the 004 rumored to be even larger than the G.R Ford class, fitting a few J-36s on a carrier shouldn't be much of an issue, possibly requiring them to further reinforce the deck to take the force such a large aircraft landing but being fair the US landed a C-130 with an empty weight of 83000 pounds on a carrier once.

Sure, the H-20 could probably perform these strikes if needed but I believe having dedicated VLO strikers or atleast a stealth multirole aircraft that could carry cruise missiles and large guided bombs on carriers will greatly shorten response time especially with China not having airbases around the world. I believe this might be a good way to massively increase PLA's projection of power without relying on third party bases aboard.

Given the sizes involved I think it is much more likely that the J-50 is carrier-based than the J-36. I'm just saying that the J-50's two front wheels do not guarantee it is a carrier fighter, whereas evidence of folding wings would virtually guarantee it.

 

[Tomboy]

The A-12 Avenger. It was supposed to be much smaller and and lighter than a J-36. 17.5tons empty, a fighter like number. I'm not sure it was cancelled, but it is a very interesting aircraft.

Perhaps ATA project was a bad example, but I was suggesting something like a large(for carrier) strike fighter/bomber for deep penetration strikes deep into enemy territory which current China lacks the ability to do so with enemies that are across the ocean with lack of oversea airbases and no long-range strategic bomber, even with long-range strategic bombers hitting targets for example in CONUS would still be difficult due to increased chances of detection since you'd most likely have to overfly some heavily monitored airspaces and have a hit on sortie rates just due to how far it is and limited number of H-20s. But if they had a carrier based bomber or strike fighter that could carry out those tasks, it makes them a lot more versatile and increase power projection without any extra infrastructure that relies on third party countries which would ultimately prove unreliable in a conflict.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

(Discussion moved here to avoid derailing original thread.)

Well, unlike the WS-10, naval considerations should be part of the WS-15 program from the get-go. So hopefully we won't see any interim engine bullcrap this time.

Well, that's the problem.

WS-15 has been developed (or shall I say, tailor-made) with the J-20/A in mind, and that the J-20 wasn't planned for carrier-based operations in the first place. So if this situation does happen (i.e. navalized variant of WS-15 isn't ready in time as interim engine for the J-XDSH), then the WS-10H must be ready, no matter what.

In the meantime, given that the probable J-XDSH likely won't be entering service onboard PLAN CV(N)s until the mid-2030s - Given the additional time available for the AECC and SAC engineers, the best-case scenario would be having the new J-XDSH units to use WS-XX from the get-go. But then, I'm still very cautiously optimistic and borderline pessimistic.

 

[sunnymaxi]

In the meantime, given that the probable J-XDSH likely won't be entering service onboard PLAN CV(N)s until the mid-2030s - Given the additional time available for the AECC and SAC engineers, the best-case scenario would be having the new J-XDSH units to use WS-XX from the get-go. But then, I'm still very cautiously optimistic and borderline pessimistic.

J-XDSH specifically designed for Naval operation as well. and even with optimistic timeline, J-XDSH won't enter in service in PLAN before mid 2030's. still solid 10 years away.

ACE/VCE project is too secret, but what i see is, we have two projects ongoing.. AECC Shenyang took conservative approach with existing Engines core.

there is another ''clean sheet design'' project undertaking by AECC Xian alongside AECC Sichuan.

the best-case scenario would be having the new J-XDSH units to use WS-XX from the get-go

very much possible..