Lack of Chinese Equipment Upgrades

Dear Sirs:

Is it just me or have you noticed that the PLA, PLAAF, PLAN, don't seem to upgrade their equipment as much as the West (or the Russians for that matter) does?

Take the PLAN for instance, before they would slowly upgrade their older Luda series of destroyers with new missiles, radars, CIC, CIWS - guns, sensors and even SAMs, but lately this seems trend seems to have gone out the window.

A good example are the four older Jiangwei 1 frigates. Despite the better equipment and performance of the newer Jiangwei II's, the PLAN doesn't seem interested in upgrading them to the Jiangwei II standard.

The same thing could be said of the two older 054 frigates, they could be rebuilt to the 054A standard without the necessity of building new hulls. That way they could become front-line ships rather than merely advanced patrol ships.

Another example is the PLAAF with the older Russian-sourced Su-27's and the PLANAF with the older JH-7's. In each case China could put these aircraft through a comprehensive modernization/upgrade program which would make them much more effective weapon systems.

One of the few examples of this is the modification of some H-6 airframes into airborne tanker aircraft.

But for some reason the PLA as a whole seems reluctant to do so.

Why is this?


Will it consume valuable shipyard time and resources? Not in this economic climate with a 50% reduction in ship orders.

And both SAC and CAC have older, unused-capacity, production lines while the PLAAF and the PLANAF also have older maintenance facilities that could be used to do this.

Note also that the improvements in the older production and maintenance lines and the training for the personnel for these upgrades will help develop China's military-industrial complex.

Furthermore the smaller aircraft, shipbuilding, electronic and materials companies could be involved as sub-contractors by the big companies.

Well developed block upgrades should become a part of China's procurement system.

Wouldn't this be a better use of China's resources?

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

They upgraded all the older JH-7s with new radars and avionics to make these on the same level as the JH-7A.

Many Q-5s have been subjected to upgrades. The latest versions now include laser targeters and FLIRs.

J-8Bs were subjected to upgrades on the radar to the J-8B-02 level, the same level as the J-8D.

J-8Ds (those not converted from J-8Bs) are being converted to the same avionics and radar level as the J-8F. These conversions are called J-8H.

J-7H is the J-7B converted to the same avionics and radar level as the J-7E.

Some of the older Jiangweis, those with the HQ-61, I think were upgraded with the HQ-7 and newer turrets.

Some of the Jianghus were upgraded to using the YJ-8X missile. One was upgraded into a MLRS system.

I think two of the Ludas were upgraded to the YJ-8X and the HQ-7 missile system, the latter to the rear of the ship.

Many T-59s are upgraded to the T-59D standard.


Upgrades are usually the sign of I-can't-afford-this disease. That's why the West and especially the Russians do a lot of it.

As the PLA, PLAAF, PLAN gets bigger budgets, the trend is away from upgrades to purchasing whole new stuff entirely. Usually purchasing things as brand new and as a whole are actually more cost effective in the long run. If you're upgrading a older platform, you're only extending the life of the item for a short while and down the road, you will sooner and more frequently confront the obsolescence issue.

I agree with you crobato. :china:

Just wonder when will China be fielding a nuclear force of DF-31 series to around 2,000 missiles, with around 200 launchers...

With this kind of posture, China's nuclear force will be at par with US and Russia.

Not very soon. It seems the PRC appears to be content sitting on a deterrent force around 100 to 200 ICBMs.

ryz05

Crobato said it all; a good reason for not upgrading is new technologies are under development and coming online, such as the J-10B and the maybe even an aircraft carrier. Therefore, fundings are being redirected toward those areas and prepared for their eventual deployment.

I know that. But would an ICBM cost a lot? I think it will be worthy to spend for.


Why? It will surely rattle the US and its neighbors if China has a huge stockpile.

duskylim said:

Dear Sirs:

Is it just me or have you noticed that the PLA, PLAAF, PLAN, don't seem to upgrade their equipment as much as the West (or the Russians for that matter) does?

Take the PLAN for instance, before they would slowly upgrade their older Luda series of destroyers with new missiles, radars, CIC, CIWS - guns, sensors and even SAMs, but lately this seems trend seems to have gone out the window.

A good example are the four older Jiangwei 1 frigates. Despite the better equipment and performance of the newer Jiangwei II's, the PLAN doesn't seem interested in upgrading them to the Jiangwei II standard.

Click to expand...

A few years ago we had a thread with discussions on fantasy/armchair admiral upgrades for older PLAN ships. But the reality is that Luda's are slowly being decommissioned and older Jianghus converted to Coast Guard service. We might see a final "mod 5" Luda, but that'd be it.

As for the Jiangwei class, I don't see the value in upgrading them to Jiangwei II standard. If you're going to spend the $, mind as well replace the old SAM and AA systems with more modern CIWS, like the FL-3000N. Install 2 of them and you'd get 2 x 24 fire and forget SAMs for self-defense. That's a lot better than a HQ-7.

But personally, I'd like to see the Jiangwei I's converted to Coast Guard service in the future, giving the marine police better aviation capability at sea. The space used for weapon systems now can be converted into decks holding rescue/medical equipment. These converted aviation marine police vessels, combined with 8-12 Jianghu I conversions, will give China's Coast Guard service a real "fleet" to work with in protecting China's vast EEZ. When there's a conflict with foreign vessels, the first ships to send should be Coast Guard vessels coated in white, with CG/Marine Police stripes.

adeptitus said:

But personally, I'd like to see the Jiangwei I's converted to Coast Guard service in the future, giving the marine police better aviation capability at sea. The space used for weapon systems now can be converted into decks holding rescue/medical equipment. These converted aviation marine police vessels, combined with 8-12 Jianghu I conversions, will give China's Coast Guard service a real "fleet" to work with in protecting China's vast EEZ. When there's a conflict with foreign vessels, the first ships to send should be Coast Guard vessels coated in white, with CG/Marine Police stripes.

[qimg]http://i0.sinaimg.cn/jc/2008-07-04/U2142P27T1D508771F3DT20080704110521.jpg[/qimg]

Click to expand...

I would agree and support this. It will also greatly boost China's over all power, since PLAN will be introducing more and newer ships, the coast guard also has combat ability.

This will be kinda hidden to most of the world, since coast guard vessels aren't being mentioned much in the military equipment counts. :nono:

ISnt the SU27sk in PLAAF all upgraded already? At least according to KANWA and thier source in russia, those SU27 bought from russiaare all been upgraded to SMK standard, without ground attack abilities though, pure air superiority fighter.

The J-11s and the third batch of Su-27s, which are all Su-27UBKs, are all upgraded to fire R-77 active homing missile. That gives them a searing advantage over the generic Su-27SK. But it is indeed true, the ground attack capabilities are not upgraded.