India's elite forces to get US firepower

The purpose of posting this article is to highlight few facts:

1] The Arjun tank is undergoing desert trials right now.
2] The comparitive trials of the Arjun against T-72 and T-90s tanks shall be held next month.
3] The Chief of Staff of the army is happy with the Arjun tank.

India's elite forces to get US firepower

The process of modernisation of the Indian Army's elite Special Forces has been kicked off with the necessary equipment being identified and acquired, Army Chief Gen J J Singh said on Friday.

''We are paying due attention to the modernisation of the Special Forces. The Army has identified 40 items as necessary for the purpose. Out of these, 20 are extremely specialised and are available from the US... we are acquiring them through the Foreign Military Sales route,'' he said on the eve of Army Day.

The Army chief said an empowered committee comprising senior officials had visited the US and 'seen and selected the requisite items'.

''We hope to get these items within the next six months... one year at the latest,'' he said.

Regarding the remaining 20 items, Gen Singh said they would be acquired within the next one or two years.

''Nevertheless, one must remember that the Army's Special Forces -- which are tasked with being in the forefront of all offensive operations -- have performed well,'' he said.

The Indian Army presently has five battalions of Special Forces, drawn out of the total ten battalions of the Parachute Regiment.

Meanwhile, Gen Singh asserted that there was no problem with either the indigenously designed Main Battle Tank Arjun or the 5.56 mm INSAS rifle, as recent reports had pointed out.

''The INSAS is a first-rate weapon. As with all weapon systems, there are small areas of improvement, which we constantly point out. These are being addressed,'' he said.

Regarding Arjun, the Army chief said the Defence Research and Development Organisation was currently trying out the tank in the deserts.

''Next month, the DRDO will make the tank available to us for comparative trials, which we will hold with the T-72 and the T-90s,'' he said.

Noting that the Army had already placed an indent of 124 tanks with the Ordnance Factory Board, he said they would raise two regiments equipped with Arjun.

''The Arjun is a world-class tank... we will use them in the sectors where they are the most effective,'' Gen Singh said.

Source:

would be interesting to know what US 'items' are being referred to. Would they be subsytems for integration into a larger system (like armoured vehicles) or are they referring to full fledged weapons systems? I know next to nothing about the Indian military, maybe some more informed posters would care to speculate?

walter said:

would be interesting to know what US 'items' are being referred to. Would they be subsytems for integration into a larger system (like armoured vehicles) or are they referring to full fledged weapons systems? I know next to nothing about the Indian military, maybe some more informed posters would care to speculate?

Click to expand...

Much is not known to media also. A few items are already procured , some are under way also a number are in discussion . These are mostly high tech subsystems , like laser designators for rifles and advanced day/night vision scope , sensors for border patrolling etc. Also India wants to have the tech transfer of many of these goodies !!!

The US does have some of the best special ops equipment in the world so it is a good idea for India to purchase it from the US. As for the Arjun tank, well, I have my doubts because of many reports I read. I guess I will have to wait and see what happens in the next few months.

crazyinsane105 said:

The US does have some of the best special ops equipment in the world so it is a good idea for India to purchase it from the US. As for the Arjun tank, well, I have my doubts because of many reports I read. I guess I will have to wait and see what happens in the next few months.

Click to expand...

I think the good idea is getting them from Israel under ToT !!!

India is purchasing some from US to keep it calm and stop it using its banning power when India gets some other from Israel !! Personally I don't think its very good from getting thinks from US .

And abt Arjun Tank, yes its having a good gun and composite armour which are better than T90. The problem is its mobility under current infrastructure and the attitude of Indian Generals towards non soviet style armour !!!

I do have to congradulate the Indian members of this forum. It seems like Arjun is going a lot better than most of us gave it credit for.

This article is about three months old:

Arjun tanks’ tech troubles continue:

Three decades after the project was launched the tank’s future in the army still hangs in the balance.

India’s trouble-ridden Arjun main battle tank (MBT) has run into yet another round of technological problems as several of its crucial systems, including its engine, failed during recent trials in Rajasthan, over three decades after the project was launched.

“Certain systems (of Arjun) have not met acceptance criteria during preparatory trials,” Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee admitted in parliament recently, adding that these were being rectified.

Mr Mukherjee said more “ruggedisation” was being introduced in Arjun to enable it to withstand abnormal peak temperatures in the desert, one of the areas where it is likely to be eventually deployed.

Official sources said the first lot of five Arjun tanks handed over to the army last August faced problems during two months of trials that began in July, not only with the fire control system, suspension and main gunners sight but also with its German MTU 838 Ka-510 1400 hp diesel engine that “seized” during manoeuvres in temperatures averaging between 55-60 degrees Celsius.

The five undergoing trials of Arjun are the first batch of 124 units sanctioned to be built at the heavy vehicles factory (HVF) at Avadi near Chennai.

Army headquarters declined to comment on Arjun’s shortcomings, but Chief of Army Staff General J J Singh told Jane’s Defence Weekly of the UK in an interview in July that the MBT’s “future would be decided after summer trials”.

Anticipating recurring technological problems and cost overruns with Arjun, the army imported 310 Russian T 90 S MBT’s in February 2001 for over $700 million and is to begin their licensed production at HVF next year.

Military sources said nearly two-thirds of Arjun’s components like its power pack, FCS and gun control system were imported while its weight of 61.5 tons had led to repeated transmission failures during earlier trials before the stipulated life of 6,000 km and the overheating and engine de-rating problems persisted.

Import dependency:

Imported systems had significantly hiked the MBT’s price estimated at between Rs 150-Rs 160 million ($3.3 - 3.5 million) per piece. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has repeatedly said it hoped to reduce Arjun’s import dependency to around 20 per cent, but armoured corps officers said this would be “near impossible” to achieve as the agency simply had neither the technological capability nor the incentive to develop critical systems locally.

“Arjun’s excessive weight and low mission reliability makes the MBT an operational liability” a senior armoured corps officer said, declining to be named. Its weight also required building special railway wagons and transporters and replacing many of the bridges in forward areas bordering Pakistan, where Arjun would be positioned.

“The biggest problem is of the production agencies. There is little quality control, and the general level of engineering is extremely poor” former chief of army staff Gen Shankar Roychowdhury, a former tank commander declared.



Now, I am not sure how the Indians managed to correct all these problems in three months, but let's say they did. 124 is still a pretty small order when compared to Pakistan's 300 Al Khalid tanks (and with the Al Khalid II to come out by next year, the AL Khalid II will most likely be the mainstay of the Pak army). That is my question: why would India only want 124? Why not double that order so India would have four regiments of Arjuns instead of two? On top of that, India is going to buy more T-90's from Russia.

with development completion hanging in the balance so late, i advise laying off of the arjun if any more problems arise after now. tank era is over, and india should be spending money on advanced APCs and IFVs, to make a highly mobile yer powerful military, not one weighted down by burdensom tanks.

good luck with INSAS though.

Now, I am not sure how the Indians managed to correct all these problems in three months, but let's say they did. 124 is still a pretty small order when compared to Pakistan's 300 Al Khalid tanks (and with the Al Khalid II to come out by next year, the AL Khalid II will most likely be the mainstay of the Pak army). That is my question: why would India only want 124? Why not double that order so India would have four regiments of Arjuns instead of two? On top of that, India is going to buy more T-90's from Russia.

Click to expand...

And if you compare the cost of Arjun and Alkalid its about twice as expensive. And always isn't the Indian military one that orders in batches? Remember how the theres an initial order and choices to purchase more. Also the Indian Army had purhased 300 T-90 to counter the T-84 that Pakistan had gotten. Its only now that Arjun is being deleivered. The manufactureres are busy with T-90 still and upgraded T-72's. Thats why the Arjun induction is slow. A new lines needs to be opened or one needs to be closed.

tank era is over, and india should be spending money on advanced APCs and IFVs, to make a highly mobile yer powerful military, not one weighted down by burdensom tanks.

Click to expand...

And i'm sure your the expert as usual?
The tank era is far from over. Tanks provide mobile high fire power. How do you knock out APC's, IFVs and bunkers? With tanks! Tanks are not replaceble yet. They might be slow but they are the ones that provide the fastest results in a war. A dug in tank can cause hell for the invading forces.

I have to agree with jatt that the tank era is far from over. Especially in the Pak-India scenario. Pakistan follows NATO doctrine while the Indians follow the Russian doctrine. Both of these doctrines require heavy armor. All this "the tank era is over" has been coming out of some Pentagon officials for ages now. And guess what? Iraq has completely proven the tank critics wrong. If the US decides to deploy Bradley fighting veichles along with Strykers with no M1's, those lightly armored veichles would stand almost no chance in urban battles like those seen in Fallujah. And in the Indian Pakistan scenario, both armies have massive quantities of anti-tank munitions that APC's and IFV's won't be able to go against. Tanks are basically large moving artillery pieces that can sustain incredible amounts of damage and APC's or IFV's can't do that.