airsuperiority
Captain
If RTP, aka Responsibility to Protect, is officially established in 1987, do you guys think the international community will conduct RTP towards Beijing in 1989?
If RPT was established prior to 1989
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CottageLV
Banned Idiot
Too political and too sensitive for this such HARMONIOUS forum.
On a side note, personally speaking, I don't think so. Even between 60s-80s, despite being relatively weak, China was still a major power. It's not easy to mess with a lion, even if it was ill. There's an old Chinese proverb, a camel died of anorexia is still bigger than a horse. China is not Iraq or Vietnam. It takes a lot of gut to physically attack a country like China, even for a country as mighty as the United States.
Russia during the Georgian conflict would be a great example. As crippled and as incompetent as Russia currently seems to be; even with rusted tanks and semi-flyable jets, it could still easily annihilate Georgia within days.
Just because the tiger is sick, doesn't mean you could treat it as hello kitty.
airsuperiority
Captain
Thanks for the reminder. I asked because I'm minoring in IR and we're talking about RTP last week, so the entire intention of the topic is more on academic exploratory.
solarz
Brigadier
Here's what wikipedia has to say about RTP:
That sounds like a load of bull.
First of all, the 3 "pillars" have no historical evidence what so ever of being effective. Iraq is the prime example: is it better off before or after the American invasion? As for economic sanctions, when has it ever been able to change a nation's political system?
Secondly, who determines whether intervention is necessary? Do Palestinians count as Israel's responsibility? Why intervene in Libya and not Bharain? Why can Canada get away with letting First Nation communities live in 3rd-world conditions?
That sounds like a load of bull.
First of all, the 3 "pillars" have no historical evidence what so ever of being effective. Iraq is the prime example: is it better off before or after the American invasion? As for economic sanctions, when has it ever been able to change a nation's political system?
Secondly, who determines whether intervention is necessary? Do Palestinians count as Israel's responsibility? Why intervene in Libya and not Bharain? Why can Canada get away with letting First Nation communities live in 3rd-world conditions?
The two great questions of modern Geopolitical Strategy are:
1) Do we have the power and muscle to actually get away with doing this?
2) Do we have a good story to use to justify it?
Guess where RTP sits in this process?
1) Do we have the power and muscle to actually get away with doing this?
2) Do we have a good story to use to justify it?
Guess where RTP sits in this process?
airsuperiority
Captain
Actually if according to the criteria, RTP may not be applicable to Iraq because it's not considered/falls under RTP. This was a question I brought up to my TA, and I asked it on the premise of Wars of Aggression, which she said belongs to something else the UN has defined. Regardless, the UN wasn't particularly effective on that neither, but it does really make me wonder if RTP had been established, would any of the Western states actually act out.
---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------
RTP have to meet 6 criteria, which were:
In here, it won't be hard for 1989 to meet all except the 5th criteria.
Why I also brought this up is because RTP in Libya last year, which was taken up by NATO, acted on the concerns of Gaddafi troops surrounding a city and they deemed mass killings as imminent. Also coupled with Gaddafi's overt verbal announcements of killing all rebels, all 6 criteria were thus defined as evident, met, and warranted a response. Once again, it is a very Constructivist definition, which we also argued as a weakness of RTP, as what can be considered as "signs" and meeting criteria of RTP are very subjective.
Nonetheless, what Libya was, almost stark a striking resemblance with 1989, and definitely the footage of tanks rolling into the Square would've massively led to emergency UNSC meeting warning Beijing, although whether UNSC that time will declare a humanitarian crisis, need for "humanitarian intervention", and then calling RTP is what I'm asking now.
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solarz
Brigadier
Not only subjective, but subject to manipulation and media distortions as well. Evidence of Rebel atrocities were covered up, while even rumors of Gaddafi atrocities were taken at face value. It's since been revealed that the claims of Gaddafi forces' "massacres and rapes" were massively exaggerated, if not outright fabricated. The so-called "African Mercenaries" that Gaddafi "unleashed on his own people" was .
CottageLV
Banned Idiot
LOL, you clearly haven't been to the reserves, the houses are huge. They get paid to live simply because theyre native, living on other people's blood and sweat.
solarz
Brigadier
I guess these things are made up then?