how could aegis deal with targets which are under horizon?

i've been being interesting about the aegis system these days. as we know, the SM-2 missile's track model is INS/orders track at begining and semi-active radar track at the end. AN/SPY-1 PAR could offer orders to SM-2 to correct the lane error. but it can't offer the final illuminating because it's a S wave band radar which doesn't have enough accuracy. the final illuminater are three AN/SPG-62 fire control radars. they have to illuminate for SM-2 while the missiles are in the end of their trip.

my question is how could aegis deal with targets which are under horizon. how could the AN/SPG-62 FCS illuminate the targets since they are in its dead angle. aegis could be supported by other sensor units such as AWACS through data links, but still, AN/SPG-62 must offer illuminating. unless AWACS can do this job for FCS, otherwise i'm confused.

My bet is that awacs are, in such cases, indeed used to illuminate targets. Otherwise what would be the point of having missiles with the range like sm-2ER has. Perhaps also other planes, like f18E/F can be used to illuminate targets for the standards. What i am wondering is what exacly kind of a datalink is used between F18s, E2s, USN ships and standards? Unless its microwave line of sight link (probably not, given the distances) jamming it would be possible, at least in theory.

E-2C can track active-radar track misslies such as harpoons for sure, but still has problem to track semi-active radar track misslies such as SM-2 because they need final illuminate. and SAM demand much more exact imformation than SSM. E-2C's broadband ARQ-34 high-frequency data link and ARC-158 even high-frequency data link are not wide enough to transfer vast datas for several air defence missiles in real time. let alone the other planes which even can't offer eletrical power for high-efficiency radar.

USN is currently developing SM-6 SAM that believed to be made of by SM-2's body and an advanced active-radar tracked part, which is able to deal with over-horizon targets. it's going to replace SM-2 in the future. and no real option using current SM-2 missiles appear to be available.

the current USN stantard data link is LINK16. it can do frequency jumping between 960~1215MHz with a maximum speed of 76900/s. very hard to jam it.

....the Z-9C can also be configured for anti-surface missile command relay missions. This significantly improves the PLAN vessel's observation, reconnaissance and attack capabilities well beyond the range of the vessel's surface search system. When the helicopter's surface search radar detects the enemy ship, the target information is transferred to the carrier ship through datalink. The anti-ship missile also relies on the guidance data from the helicopter at the initial stage of an 'over-the-horizon' attack.

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yi-81/83 is active-radar tracked SSM, no need to final illuminate for it coz there is illuminater on missile. this missile can seek target by itself in the end of trip, same as harpoon. just install rough informatins of target in missile before launch it is ok. helicopter with its crapy radar already be able to get these informations. SM-2 is semi-active radar tracked SAM. that's absolutely different.

could then the answer to your question be "it can't" ? At least not until active radar standards are deployed? Aegis shield was more or less made to defend the crown jewel of a fleet - the carrier. So while the outer ring burkes have just those 30 or so km up-to-the-horizon to destroy the incoming sea skimming missiles, they still illuminate 'em for the inner ring boats (including carrier itself), which could be 60, 80, 100 or so km away from the incoming missiles.

yes, aegis ships can illuminate for eachothers' SM-2. but the problem is the outer ring ships would be in dangers. just like skin onion shells, enemy could step by step vipe all of these guards out with surface-flying SSM.

in fact USN's AAW main power(also ASW main power and sea/land strike main power) is carrier based planes. aegis is just playing role as gatekeeper. USN never expect that just use aegis to defence all air strike. and in most of cases, USN doesn't need to air defence. they can destroy enemy's fleet with planes before the enemy could reach them. planes are always unbeatable rival of ships(also subs). and there are several dozens planes carried by USN CVBG.

The question is:
how could aegis (like the Type 052C Lanzhou Class DDG) deal with targets which are under horizon?

The answer is:
by using planes or helos!

If someone think, thats off topic, you may do not read the rest of this posting.
The following grafic could show the problem.
The vertikal line is the distance away from ship, the horizontal line is the altitude of detecting targets (in m).

At a distance of 110 km, a ship based radar cant detect targets lower than 500 m over ground.
At a distance of 150 km they ar hidden lower than 1000 m altitude.
At a distance of 180 km these targets may fligh lower than 1500 m, to be not detected by ship based radar.

So you see: mean distanced enemy ships can't be detected by own ships, carriing ship-to-ship missiles. They need missile guidance helicopter, like the Ka-25 Hormone-B or AEW helicopters like the Ka-31

big toothbrush said:

..... helicopter with its crapy radar already be able to get these informations. ....

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I don't think so; AEW planes will be a better option, but if you can't use planes at least you should use helos, its better instead of nothing.

Source:

For carrier-based airborne early warning (AEW), the Russian Kamov Ka-31 naval helicopter has been considered by the PLAN.

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The main mission of the KA-31 helicopter is long-range detection of threats, including airborne threats such as fixed wing aircraft and helicopters. Surveillance, target tracking and transmission of the target data to the command posts is carried out onboard the helicopter. The early provision of hostile target information increases the combat efficiency of naval, air defence and land forces.


Also western Navys using AEW helos,

to Sczepan:

we appreciate your comments, but they are a little bit out topic here. please read whole thread carefully before make reply.

Sincerely!

big toothbrush said:

yes, aegis ships can illuminate for eachothers' SM-2. but the problem is the outer ring ships would be in dangers. just like skin onion shells, enemy could step by step vipe all of these guards out with surface-flying SSM.

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Exactly. But if it is true that only aegis ships can do target illumination, that's more or less only choice. USN actually does spread out its CVBG, i just dont know how much. part od the reason could be the very same problem you're mentioning here. So, if it would be possible for the attacker to negate the f18s from the carrier, and launch their missiles at the outer ring burke - that ship could find itself in a dangerous place. Rinse, repeat, given enough attackers planes and missiles, carrier itself could be in danger. Of course, is USN's f18s wouldnt not be able to do the job of protection like they should - chances are the whole CVBG would turn around and get out of the combat theater. Whole point will be sort of moot though soon, when active radar standards are deployed. (could it be that then the formation of boats in the CVBG will be a bit tighter then?)