H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Discussion continued here to avoid derailing original thread.



Source of the information/claims?

While the H-20 is generally assumed to be a subsonic flying wing akin to the B-2 or B-21, there's been open chatter that it is in fact a supersonic platform:

View attachment 143048

4-engine supersonic - H20

Orcs & Ayi imply

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The decision to move to a supersonic design would also explain the lack of visible progress associated with the H-20 program despite the emergence of 6th generation designs out of both Chengdu and Shenyang.



If the H-20 is in fact a subsonic flying wing as most folks assume, then this would most likely be it:


Likewise the very existence of this platform implies that the Chinese military industrial complex is capable of outputting a subsonic VLO flying wing akin to the B-2 or B-21: the H-20 design that folks have been expecting.

So if this thing isn't it, and we don't see a subsonic H-20 flying wing soon, then the most logical explanation is that the H-20 currently envisioned by the PLAAF is in fact a noticeably more technically challenging design than what this VLO flying wing represents.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Well, the Soviets in the 1970s were supposed to design new strategic bombers. So Tupolev, Sukhoi, and Myasishchev came up with proposals. Turns out the Sukhoi design won out. The T-4MS.

1000000758.jpg

This is a supersonic lifting body design. Has huge internal space for bombs and fuel. If H-20 is supersonic I would expect it to look something like this

Shame is Tupolev got assigned to its production. They controlled the only available factory. Tupolev sabotaged the program by insisting on making some other more "proven" design. And that was how we got the Tu-160. Some B-1 bomber clone. With less range, lower top speed, and less payload.
 
Last edited:

Tomboy

Junior Member
Registered Member
If the H-20 is in fact a subsonic flying wing as most folks assume, then this would most likely be it:


The very existence of this platform implies that the Chinese military industrial complex is capable of producing a subsonic VLO flying wing akin to the B-2 or B-21: the H-20 design that folks have been expecting.

So if this thing isn't it, and we don't see a subsonic H-20 flying wing soon, then the most logical explanation is that the H-20 currently envisioned by the PLAAF is in fact a noticeably more technically challenging design than what this VLO flying wing represents.
There could be other designs of flying wings, contrary to most people's belief B-2/B-21's shape is not the most optimal for stealth as it's lambda wing structure from the back forms converging trailing edges which under certain condition could form corner reflectors from the rear, this also is why B-21 only has a single large V shaped trailing edge instead of B-2's many V shaped trailing edge.
83419-e9ce803d4e593886d8815b7824ac25e8.png
This planform is the most optimal design for radar stealth, of course the intakes and exhaust could be further refined like the B-21 which has very low profile intakes effectively hidden when viewed from the front:B-21-was-unveiled-the-backbone-of-deep-penetration-US-aviation.jpg
Exhaust could take the form similar to this ADVENT proposal which has a S-duct not just in the intake engine but also in the exhaust to fully hide the engine. Along with a very low-profile exhaust that could blend into the trailing edge for maximum radar and IR stealth.

ADVENT-engine.jpg

All of these are new technologies for China and probably the rest of the world as well, hence the long development time H-20 is taking along with the fact that it has to be large enough to have sufficient range to strike CONUS, enough space to have atleast a crew of 4 and their amenities for the duration of the mission, carry enough cruise missiles to cause significant damage with a single sortie, probably also some technology onboard for it to fit into the next generation combat ecosystem.

Supersonic H-20 right now doesn't make sense; this isn't the 50s where flying at supersonic speed and high altitude could save you from SAMs and interceptors. Not to mention the range of such an aircraft is questionable, XB-70 was the closest thing we've got to sustained supersonic bomber and that thing had terrible range despite its massive size and the fact that it has 0 stealth what-so-ever. Even if you could make such an aircraft stealthy, you'll never reach the same level as even the B-21, you also now have to deal with massive IR signature from sustained supersonic cruise. Before someone says why not just have it cruise subsonically before doing a supersonic dash, back in the 50s when the XB-70 was designed that was exactly what they thought but they later found that optimising the aircraft for supersonic cruise was in fact more efficient than trying to do both. Optimising for extreme subsonic efficiency(required if you want intercontinental range) while still being able to go supersonic is extremely difficult and is what led to Tu-160 using heavy/non-stealthy variable wings and even today this is still the best if not the only solution.

Personally, I think H-20 will neither be a supersonic aircraft nor a B-2/B-21 style flying wing but something more unique in form and even more stealthy than the B-21 radar wise while also having a lower IR signature to evade modern long range EO sensors and future satellite based early warning systems.
 

Wrought

Senior Member
Registered Member
There could be other designs of flying wings, contrary to most people's belief B-2/B-21's shape is not the most optimal for stealth as it's lambda wing structure from the back forms converging trailing edges which under certain condition could form corner reflectors from the rear, this also is why B-21 only has a single large V shaped trailing edge instead of B-2's many V shaped trailing edge.
View attachment 154568
This planform is the most optimal design for radar stealth, of course the intakes and exhaust could be further refined like the B-21 which has very low profile intakes effectively hidden when viewed from the front:View attachment 154570
Exhaust could take the form similar to this ADVENT proposal which has a S-duct not just in the intake engine but also in the exhaust to fully hide the engine. Along with a very low-profile exhaust that could blend into the trailing edge for maximum radar and IR stealth.

View attachment 154571

All of these are new technologies for China and probably the rest of the world as well, hence the long development time H-20 is taking along with the fact that it has to be large enough to have sufficient range to strike CONUS, enough space to have atleast a crew of 4 and their amenities for the duration of the mission, carry enough cruise missiles to cause significant damage with a single sortie, probably also some technology onboard for it to fit into the next generation combat ecosystem.

Supersonic H-20 right now doesn't make sense; this isn't the 50s where flying at supersonic speed and high altitude could save you from SAMs and interceptors. Not to mention the range of such an aircraft is questionable, XB-70 was the closest thing we've got to sustained supersonic bomber and that thing had terrible range despite its massive size and the fact that it has 0 stealth what-so-ever. Even if you could make such an aircraft stealthy, you'll never reach the same level as even the B-21, you also now have to deal with massive IR signature from sustained supersonic cruise. Before someone says why not just have it cruise subsonically before doing a supersonic dash, back in the 50s when the XB-70 was designed that was exactly what they thought but they later found that optimising the aircraft for supersonic cruise was in fact more efficient than trying to do both. Optimising for extreme subsonic efficiency(required if you want intercontinental range) while still being able to go supersonic is extremely difficult and is what led to Tu-160 using heavy/non-stealthy variable wings and even today this is still the best if not the only solution.

Personally, I think H-20 will neither be a supersonic aircraft nor a B-2/B-21 style flying wing but something more unique in form and even more stealthy than the B-21 radar wise while also having a lower IR signature to evade modern long range EO sensors and future satellite based early warning systems.

H-20 Hopeless Diamond?
 
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