Future PLAN Backfires versus US carriers (or any other hostile ships for that matter)

Gauntlet

Gauntlet

Junior Member
Most of you have seen "The Sum of all Fears" directed/written by Tom Clancy.

Now, I know many people dont like Clancy because of his extreme patriotism and pro-American attitude, but one scene in that movie seemed to have atleast a glimps of realism in it.

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As you see from the clip, several Russian Tu-22M3 "Backfire-C" attacks the USS John Stennis with what seems for me to be the AS-4 "Kitchen" anti ship missiles.

Now, the current PLAN doesnt operated any Backfires, but I have read several places that they will most likely try to get some in the near future. In the clip, the Backfires come flying in low altitude and then launches their missiles. The CIWS system at the carrier only have a few seconds respond time. Now, this is most likely a little exagerated since it is an Hollywood movie afterall.

Another thing that I noticed, was the lack of any US escort ships around the Stennis. This seems highly unrealistic. And the fact that if the carrier had an Hawkeye airborne (which I think they do have all the time) they would most likely have spotted the Backfires a long time ago.


But anyway, all I wanted by making this thread, was to get some discussion going on the future of PLAN Backfires, and their capabilities against hostile ships (especially juicy targets like an US carrier).
 
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IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Gauntlet said:
Most of you have seen "The Sum of all Fears" directed/written by Tom Clancy.

Now, I know many people dont like Clancy because of his extreme patriotism and pro-American attitude, but one scene in that movie seemed to have atleast a glimps of realism in it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


As you see from the clip, several Russian Tu-22M3 "Backfire-C" attacks the USS John Stennis with what seems for me to be the AS-4 "Kitchen" anti ship missiles.

Now, the current PLAN doesnt operated any Backfires, but I have read several places that they will most likely try to get some in the near future. In the clip, the Backfires come flying in low altitude and then launches their missiles. The CIWS system at the carrier only have a few seconds respond time. Now, this is most likely a little exagerated since it is an Hollywood movie afterall.

Another thing that I noticed, was the lack of any US escort ships around the Stennis. This seems highly unrealistic. And the fact that if the carrier had an Hawkeye airborne (which I think they do have all the time) they would most likely have spotted the Backfires a long time ago.


But anyway, all I wanted by making this thread, was to get some discussion going on the future of PLAN Backfires, and their capabilities against hostile ships (especially juicy targets like an US carrier).
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The Sum of All Fears is just a movie. In reality, the USN developed tactics and countermeasures to avoid such a situation back in the 80's. Soviet backfire regiments supported by Bear recon was the greatest threat to CVBG. It was the reason why the US developed AEGIS. Aegis ships + E-2/F-18 Amraam combo are enough to protect the ship, assuming of course you get adequate recon data.
 
Gauntlet

Gauntlet

Junior Member
That is what I feared. People will get "scared away" and dont discuss in this thread, just because I took the scene from "The Sum of all Fears" as an example. It was only meant as an illustrator to "spice" things up a bit.

But anyway, so you are saying that Backfires doesnt have ANY chance in real like to even scratch a US carrier?
 
KlubMarcus

KlubMarcus

Banned Idiot
Gauntlet said:
So you are saying that Backfires doesnt have ANY chance in real like to even scratch a US carrier?
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None. It's a big metal plane trying to hide. It will show up like a big bulls-eye. US surveillance systems are designed to look into enemy territory so the fleet will start targeting any aircraft that take off.

Hey, maybe the PLAN bombers just fly really high over the Chinese mainland and try to glide their missiles in from high altitude so they won't get shot down on the way out, haha!
 
utelore

utelore

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I love Clancy.....Plus the Liberal Leftest anti-american Hollywood changed the Movie......THEY WERE NOT NAZIS IN THE BOOK....THEY WERE...your not going to believe this but....arab terrorists.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
nah...i dont think a backfire stands too much of a chance. perhaps if they were armed with stand off weapons.the speed is the only weapon of the backfire.

however, if combined with dozens of j-6 drones, jh-7s, mkks, submarines, and destryers, a backfire might turn out to be the ultimate weapon. if the cvbg is dealing with allthese weapons, a backfire has a good chance of getting through. but as of now, china does not have the ability to coordinate such a mass attack.
 
KlubMarcus

KlubMarcus

Banned Idiot
MIGleader said:
but as of now, china does not have the ability to coordinate such a mass attack.
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Yep! It doesn't seem like the PLAAF has a huge tanker fleet too. You're going to need a lot of gas if you are going to fly waves of aircraft to launch weapons at the US military. It's hard to mass formations w/o lots of tanker aircraft standing by. Over Iraq, the USAF flew a ton of tanker sorties for their planes and they were over land. In a fight around Taiwan's waters, mainland aircraft are going to have serious trouble because a lot of fuel is burnt during take-off and during evasive high-speed flying. The Argentinians had that problem over the Falklands.
 
Gauntlet

Gauntlet

Junior Member
Re: Future PLAN Backfires versus US carriers (or any other hostile ships for that mat

KlubMarcus said:
Yep! It doesn't seem like the PLAAF has a huge tanker fleet too. You're going to need a lot of gas if you are going to fly waves of aircraft to launch weapons at the US military. It's hard to mass formations w/o lots of tanker aircraft standing by. Over Iraq, the USAF flew a ton of tanker sorties for their planes and they were over land. In a fight around Taiwan's waters, mainland aircraft are going to have serious trouble because a lot of fuel is burnt during take-off and during evasive high-speed flying. The Argentinians had that problem over the Falklands.
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But the Backfire wouldnt have that problem as they have a much larger range compared to US Hornets, or Argentinan Super Entendard.

The Backfires would have no problem (regard fuel) to attack hostile ships within Chinese waters, or around Taiwan.
 
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IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
MIGleader said:
nah...i dont think a backfire stands too much of a chance. perhaps if they were armed with stand off weapons.the speed is the only weapon of the backfire.

however, if combined with dozens of j-6 drones, jh-7s, mkks, submarines, and destryers, a backfire might turn out to be the ultimate weapon. if the cvbg is dealing with allthese weapons, a backfire has a good chance of getting through. but as of now, china does not have the ability to coordinate such a mass attack.
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That Backfire threat was very real in the cold war days. Each one of these badboys can carry 1 or 2 AS-4 or As-6 missiles, mach 3 speed plus 500km range.

You should read Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy, they had a Backfire vs Carrier battle in it. Here is what they did. Soviet used blinder bombers to fire AS-4 missiles (I think) that simulate Backfire trajectory and had Jamming support. F-14 with Phoenix, thinking these were the Backfires, race towards their launching point, about 1000 miles from carrier, and shot down everyone of them. Once the F-14 ran out of ammo, the backfire revealed themselves from a different direction and shoot the real missiles on relatively undefended carrier. The Carrier was defended by the USS Ticonderoga and a couple CGN but all ran out of missiles. I think 7 missles got through the defenses and sank a Marine transport, a few escort ships, and tore a hole through the Nimitz. The Nimitz was repared though.

Overall the book is a good read.
 
Gauntlet

Gauntlet

Junior Member
yeah, I have actually read Red Stor Rising. Damn entretaining book, and not too farfetched regarding an conventional WWIII during the 80s.

And as showned in the book, a single Kitchen didnt sink the Nimitz, but she were still out of the war.
 
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