Future Main Battle Tank.

[video=youtube_share;rEOoPdqBt58]http://youtu.be/rEOoPdqBt58[/video]
This is a polish Concept for a NATO Spec Advanced MBT. Poland is a relitively new member of NATO and has been pushing to get into the big boy arena of developing arms. However the Polish have only limited Aviation and Naval experience but lots of Small arms and Vehicle experience.
now this Concept Tank includes all the new High Tech goodies including Active thermal camouflage, Hard kill Active Defense, distributed optics, advanced sights, Auto loader, Modular armor, Even stealth and a Remote weapons.

At first glance modern tanks seem at a stand still. but take a second look. NATO Tanks like the Abrams is slated for the M1E3 upgrade, The Leopard 2 series is getting continuous updates as more nations buy them, The Brits Challenger 2 is being retor fitted to better suit missions in Urban terrain, the French Leclarc is being offered with upgrades and with french operations in Africa may soon be upgraded to face changing mission needs. out side of NATO, Israel is constantly updating its tanks and armor due to the threats offered by there neighbors, Turkey is moving to develop and employ a state of the Art Altay Tank, the Japanese are moving to the newer tank models like the Type 10. South Korea set a standard with there K2 and is updating it. The Russians Are looking to update there tank fleets with the next generation "Armata" series and permissibly interim T90 updates, The PLA has been consistently updating the type99 series despite it's young age with MBT2000 and MBT3000... MBT4000 , India is promising a new tank... good luck, Croatia is developing the Degman and The Urkrain is updating the M84.

to date the vast majority of these are classified as Third Generation with the Type 10 standing as the singular fourth gen.
this PL-01 if built would likely be added to the fourth gen.
so i put it to you if you were building a new tank what would you do?

IED proof. Working condition after being lifted two metres into the air by IED and landing on solid ground.

Ability to take out tanks hidden behind hills, either with ATGM or Copperhead like shells.

Impermeable against all current generation munitions.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

[video=youtube_share;rEOoPdqBt58]http://youtu.be/rEOoPdqBt58[/video]
This is a polish Concept for a NATO Spec Advanced MBT. Poland is a relitively new member of NATO and has been pushing to get into the big boy arena of developing arms. However the Polish have only limited Aviation and Naval experience but lots of Small arms and Vehicle experience.
now this Concept Tank includes all the new High Tech goodies including Active thermal camouflage, Hard kill Active Defense, distributed optics, advanced sights, Auto loader, Modular armor, Even stealth and a Remote weapons.

At first glance modern tanks seem at a stand still. but take a second look. NATO Tanks like the Abrams is slated for the M1E3 upgrade, The Leopard 2 series is getting continuous updates as more nations buy them, The Brits Challenger 2 is being retor fitted to better suit missions in Urban terrain, the French Leclarc is being offered with upgrades and with french operations in Africa may soon be upgraded to face changing mission needs. out side of NATO, Israel is constantly updating its tanks and armor due to the threats offered by there neighbors, Turkey is moving to develop and employ a state of the Art Altay Tank, the Japanese are moving to the newer tank models like the Type 10. South Korea set a standard with there K2 and is updating it. The Russians Are looking to update there tank fleets with the next generation "Armata" series and permissibly interim T90 updates, The PLA has been consistently updating the type99 series despite it's young age with MBT2000 and MBT3000... MBT4000 , India is promising a new tank... good luck, Croatia is developing the Degman and The Urkrain is updating the M84.

to date the vast majority of these are classified as Third Generation with the Type 10 standing as the singular fourth gen.
this PL-01 if built would likely be added to the fourth gen.
so i put it to you if you were building a new tank what would you do?

Click to expand...

Well anyone can conceptualize an all singing, all dancing wonder tank. The keys are:

1. Actually build it and make it work.

2. Send it to battle and see if the concepts are as good in theory as they are in battle.

As to type 10 being 4th generation, Type 10 is "fourth gen" only because the Japanese says so. The Japanese only say so because they are in a militant, chest thumping mood. There is nothing appearent in that tank to distinguishes it from a late model G3 tanks. It's armament is standard G3 fair, and very likely inferior to long barrel 120mm guns seen in late model leopard 2, challenger 2, and Korean K2 tanks. There is nothing extraordinary with its power pack, suspension, or power to weight ratio. There is no indication the Japanese made any breakthrough in armor. Typically the protection of a tank is highly correlated to the tank's weight. Type 10 is 33% lighter than a standard leopard 2a6, and is barely half the weight of M1a2 TUSK II or Leopard 2A7. Type 10 is an extreme light weight for a contempory tank, which implies it is one of less well protected contempary tanks in the world.

Type 10 by all appearances is a weak tank, designed specifically to suite limitations of Japan's domestic road and rail network, and can only get away with its light weight and implied low levels of protection because it is not expected to engage in either long range, open field tank battles seen in a continental setting, or close in urban fighting. Instead it is designed primarily to fight in mountainous setting.

chuck731 said:

Well anyone can conceptualize an all singing, all dancing wonder tank. The keys are:

1. Actually build it and make it work.

2. Send it to battle and see if the concepts are as good in theory as they are in battle.

As to type 10 being 4th generation, Type 10 is "fourth gen" only because the Japanese says so. The Japanese only say so because they are in a militant, chest thumping mood. There is nothing appearent in that tank to distinguishes it from a late model G3 tanks. It's armament is standard G3 fair, and very likely inferior to long barrel 120mm guns seen in late model leopard 2, challenger 2, and Korean K2 tanks. There is nothing extraordinary with its power pack, suspension, or power to weight ratio. There is no indication the Japanese made any breakthrough in armor. Typically the protection of a tank is highly correlated to the tank's weight. Type 10 is 33% lighter than a standard leopard 2a6, and is barely half the weight of M1a2 TUSK II or Leopard 2A7. Type 10 is an extreme light weight for a contempory tank, which implies it is one of less well protected contempary tanks in the world.

Type 10 by all appearances is a weak tank, designed specifically to suite limitations of Japan's domestic road and rail network, and can only get away with its light weight and implied low levels of protection because it is not expected to engage in either long range, open field tank battles seen in a continental setting, or close in urban fighting. Instead it is designed primarily to fight in mountainous setting.

Click to expand...

okay so lets take a look at the features list and see if they are practical.
unmanned turret. Proven. The Russians, the US and many others have looked into unmanned turrets before and a number of lighter vehicles with tank like armaments use them particularly mobile gun systems. The advantage is that by moving the crew to the hull you can reduce the weight of the turret and increase the survivability of the crew.

main armament 120mm main gun with auto loader. Proven French Leclarc', K2 as well as American test units. Auto loaders are a must for a unmanned turret and are more and more reliable then previous western models.

modular armor. Proven. Merkiva series 3and 4, late model Leopard, Leclarc. The most likely series intended is a variant of the AMAP family of armor already in use on the Leopard 2A7+ series. This allows rapid replacement of damaged armor and faster upgrade when needed.

Active hard kill defense system. Status in testing feasible. The most likely unit is AMAP-ADS which is as yet unblooded. However in Israel the Trophy system has shown ADS work.

passive IR exhausts signature reduction. Proven but not yet on tanks. Been deployed on helicopters stealth aircraft and late generation naval war ships for years.

radar cross section reduction. Proven but not yet on ground vehicles. Aircraft and naval platforms have used reduced RCS for now over three decades.

distributed optics. Proven standard feature on any number of platforms.

remote weapons station. Proven. Standard on all late model tanks and armored vehicles.

smoke grenade launchers. Proven standard all tanks.

advanced targeting systems. Proven.
standard all modern MBT and armed systems

distributed integrated radar. Proven standard most modern late model tanks and vehicles.

Laser warning receiver. Proven standard all modern mbt.

so far this looks realistic now for the questionable feature.

heat signature control. Status under development. The builder of this tank is partnered with BAE for Adaptiv a system advertised as being able to alter the heat signature of a vehicle.
there are two systems that make this offering blackfox and Adaptiv. Neither has entered production yet.

okay chuck take what do you think? I side is cautiously optimistic. I figure 90% of this tank concept is proven or practical with existing technologies. The only iffy is Adaptiv. But they have the time and the money for development.

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Type 10, good points. I feel that sense the JGSDF is not fighting or able to fight on the Asian continent like it did in the second world war. As they lack the population, resources and political will needed to even think about it. What type 10 is built for is not to take on true equivalent MBTs like say Type 99 but rather to kill amphibious tanks and APCs as such her armor can be weaker and her gun remain in the lighter category. Although I do hope the JSDF is working on either developing or procurement of a hard kill APS.

t2contra said:

IED proof. Working condition after being lifted two metres into the air by IED and landing on solid ground.

Ability to take out tanks hidden behind hills, either with ATGM or Copperhead like shells.

Impermeable against all current generation munitions.

Click to expand...

now that's a tall order.
any IED that could pick up a modern MBT and drop it 2 meters is a big mother of a bomb. If one could use a boat shaped hull and redirected blast perhaps one could but the tank is going to be badly shaken. Possibly mission killed.
taking out other vehicles is more realistic.
impervious to all is again questionable. Most of a modern MBTs defended can protect the tank but in the end when they fail the fall back is to keep the crew breathing.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

okay so lets take a look at the features list and see if they are practical.
unmanned turret. Proven. The Russians, the US and many others have looked into unmanned turrets before and a number of lighter vehicles with tank like armaments use them particularly mobile gun systems. The advantage is that by moving the crew to the hull you can reduce the weight of the turret and increase the survivability of the crew.

main armament 120mm main gun with auto loader. Proven French Leclarc', K2 as well as American test units. Auto loaders are a must for a unmanned turret and are more and more reliable then previous western models.

modular armor. Proven. Merkiva series 3and 4, late model Leopard, Leclarc. The most likely series intended is a variant of the AMAP family of armor already in use on the Leopard 2A7+ series. This allows rapid replacement of damaged armor and faster upgrade when needed.

Active hard kill defense system. Status in testing feasible. The most likely unit is AMAP-ADS which is as yet unblooded. However in Israel the Trophy system has shown ADS work.

passive IR exhausts signature reduction. Proven but not yet on tanks. Been deployed on helicopters stealth aircraft and late generation naval war ships for years.

radar cross section reduction. Proven but not yet on ground vehicles. Aircraft and naval platforms have used reduced RCS for now over three decades.

distributed optics. Proven standard feature on any number of platforms.

remote weapons station. Proven. Standard on all late model tanks and armored vehicles.

smoke grenade launchers. Proven standard all tanks.

advanced targeting systems. Proven.
standard all modern MBT and armed systems

distributed integrated radar. Proven standard most modern late model tanks and vehicles.

Laser warning receiver. Proven standard all modern mbt.

so far this looks realistic now for the questionable feature.

heat signature control. Status under development. The builder of this tank is partnered with BAE for Adaptiv a system advertised as being able to alter the heat signature of a vehicle.
there are two systems that make this offering blackfox and Adaptiv. Neither has entered production yet.

okay chuck take what do you think? I side is cautiously optimistic. I figure 90% of this tank concept is proven or practical with existing technologies. The only iffy is Adaptiv. But they have the time and the money for development..

Click to expand...

The proof is in the doing. Anyone can say "if I manage to combined everything that has individually been show to work under certain circumstances, then everything would be peachy"

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TerraN_EmpirE said:

Type 10, good points. I feel that sense the JGSDF is not fighting or able to fight on the Asian continent like it did in the second world war. As they lack the population, resources and political will needed to even think about it. What type 10 is built for is not to take on true equivalent MBTs like say Type 99 but rather to kill amphibious tanks and APCs as such her armor can be weaker and her gun remain in the lighter category. Although I do hope the JSDF is working on either developing or procurement of a hard kill APS.

Click to expand...

Type 10 is actually does not seem to possess any significant advance on the type 90. Type 90 is fundamentally as good as any other G3 western tank, if only slightly lighter - around Leclerc weight, not nearly as light as type 10. In fact, if upgrades to type 90 has not been starved of funds in order to support the more industrially profitable development of another ground up domestic tank design in the form of type 10, the substantially heavier type 90 could well have followed the growth path of the Leopard 2 series and would have by today become a substantially more potent MBT than the type 10. But upgrades to type 90 would likely have been much less profitable for Japanese industry because there would be pressure to leverage foreign technologies that is already in use to upgrade tanks like Leopard 2, M1, Challenger, and Leclerc. So a new tank is to be developed and a arguable better existing tank retired so Japanese industry can be given more government money.

So type 10 can be regarded as another artifact of Japan's 20 year effort to wantonly squander its way out of economic stagnation.

The only strong public reason given for this waste was type 90 was too large, and didn't fit on railway flat beds unless disassembled. Therefore type 10 was not strategically mobile. This is odd since large tanks like Leopard 2 doesn't seem to have the same problem. It is even more off because it is not clear why Japanese tank needed to be so strategically mobile. It is not like Japan could face invasions from multiple fronts.

there is no pleasing some people.
Okay chuck Congratulations, its not a reality yet. but the concept is rather realistic and practical. other then the Stealth Features, unmanned turret and APS most of this is already in Polish army vehicles like the WPB Anders, Leopard 2A4 and even T72.

Now I want to correct on thing on your Type 10 rant. There is no evidence that the Type 10 is meant to retire the Type 90. I suspect it more likely a replacement for the Type 74 tank of which a number remain in service.