Foreign firms ganged up to fight procurement rule

Foreign firms shouldn't complain because Chinese government is the buyer and buyer has the choice of choosing domestic or foreign products.

It's not like blocking foreign firms from selling in china regular consumer market.

besides, procurement means using chinese tax payer money. Even in US there's a buy made-in US rule in stimulus package.

fgovernment procurement doesn't violated WTO rule. as you can see foreign firms got nothing but ganaged up to write letter.

I guess no more WTO complaining for them this time.
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China tech news

December 11, 2009

Foreigners often complain that Chinese technology firms lack innovation, but a new initiative where non-Chinese technology companies have ganged up to fight China's Indigenous Innovation Product Accreditation Program shows that foreign companies appear to actually want to keep China away from ever innovating.

In a circular that was issued last month, companies were asked to submit their products for accreditation before being included in a catalogue listing items that have Chinese characteristics, including domestic innovation. The catalogue would be used for preferential procurement by Chinese agencies and could encourage more Chinese companies to innovate and create products made in China.

But fearing that their hopes of hegemonic sales of technology to China could be greatly curtailed, foreign businesses and trade organizations have clamored to lobby the Chinese government to halt these actions that could see more Chinese government agencies and companies buying domestic Chinese products, rather than goods made by foreign firms. A letter outlining the concerns of foreign businesses was signed and delivered to the Chinese government yesterday by over a dozen business leaders, including Michael Barbalas, president of the American Chamber of Commerce in China; Perrin Beatty, president of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce; and Tsutomu Handa, president of the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association.

The letter was addressed to Wan Gang, head of China's Ministry of Science and Technology; Xie Xuren, head of the Ministry of Finance; and Zhang Ping, chairman of the National Development and Reform Commission. The letter pleads for the "Chinese government not to proceed with the requirements of the joint circular" and stresses that the group of foreign entities actually wants to encourage innovation.

None of the three ministries have publicly replied to the joint letter.

It is discriminatory to foreign companies and yes the US has in the last year put Buy America provisions in place, but Communist government of China has been using these rules and others like them for years. They block Foreign participation in many levels of Chinas Economy while we the US have Laid open many parts of are economy.

What? Last year the US put "Buy American" provisions? You just made a very dumb comment. "Buy American" provisions have existed for a long time. Read some history on tariffs, trade laws, trade disputes, domestic and foreign subsidies, domestic and foreign business contracts, etc. Thinking before speaking won't work with you. Try getting a proper education before thinking, then think before speaking.

I write this in a relative sense (comparing China to America):

Anyhow, China lacks innovation because China lacks per capita resources (R&D is expensive), and Chinese society has low respect for self expression and personal accountability compared to the US. Chinese society has too much herd mentality. New ideas easily come from unique people. News ideas slowly come from common people or people who want to fit in with the crowd. People should not succeed by screwing over other people, 'cuz this is no different than robbery.

Chinese society doesn't understand the value of constructive competition as oppose to juvenile competition. People don't compare and contrast the pros and cons of stuff and use each stuff in its most effective way. They have too much tunnel vision.

People with unique ideas are laughed at in China, they are looked down upon as idiots in China, they are branded as troublemakers in China, and they are ostracized by China. People who succeed by corruption are worshiped, and people who succeed by hard work are ignored.

People in China worship money too much, and they undervalue the importance of self expression, personal accountability, morals, environmental health, personal health, and positive relationships.

America has all of these problems, too, but China's herd mentality makes things A LOT worse. The positive news is China is improving. I notice Chinese people (from old to young in all parts of society) are more willing to express themselves without fear of social criticisms and Chinese people are becoming more responsible for their actions whether they are right or wrong, but the herd is still really big and nasty.

Infra_Man99 said:

What? Last year the US put "Buy American" provisions? You just made a very dumb comment. "Buy American" provisions have existed for a long time. Read some history on tariffs, trade laws, trade disputes, domestic and foreign subsidies, domestic and foreign business contracts, etc. Thinking before speaking won't work with you. Try getting a proper education before thinking, then think before speaking.

I write this in a relative sense (comparing China to America):

Anyhow, China lacks innovation because China lacks per capita resources (R&D is expensive), and Chinese society has low respect for self expression and personal accountability compared to the US. Chinese society has too much herd mentality. New ideas easily come from unique people. News ideas slowly come from common people or people who want to fit in with the crowd. People can't succeed by screwing over other people, 'cuz this is no different than robbery.

Chinese society doesn't understand the value of constructive competition as oppose to juvenile competition. People don't compare and contrast the pros and cons of stuff and use each stuff in its most effective way. They have too much tunnel vision.

People with unique ideas are laughed at in China, they are looked down upon as idiots in China, they are branded as troublemakers in China, and they are ostracized by China. People who succeed by corruption are worshiped, and people who succeed by hard work are ignored.

People in China worship money too much, and they undervalue the importance of self expression, personal accountability, morals, environmental health, personal health, and positive relationships.

America has all of these problems, too, but China's herd mentality makes things A LOT worse. The positive news is China is improving. I notice Chinese people (from old to young in all parts of society) are more willing to express themselves without fear of social criticisms and Chinese people are becoming more responsible for their actions whether they are right or wrong, but the herd is still really big and nasty.

Click to expand...

i shall wait for a person who actually know China inside out(aside from myself) to counter your argument. too lazy to do it myself.

the history of tariffs and trade barriers isnt something a sensible American should take pride in...it just contradicts everything else they try to get everyone else to do.
personally i wouldnt want China to innovate itself into a big financial tsunami LOL

cmb=1968 said:

It is discriminatory to foreign companies and yes the US has in the last year put Buy America provisions in place, but Communist government of China has been using these rules and others like them for years. They block Foreign participation in many levels of Chinas Economy while we the US have Laid open many parts of are economy.

Click to expand...

that's a pretty weak argument. its generally accepted that within a serious academic realm (at least in canada) as soon as you throw out the phrase "communist China" you are seriously discrediting yourself.

Infra_Man99 said:

I write this in a relative sense (comparing China to America):

and Chinese society has low respect for self expression and personal accountability compared to the US. Chinese society has too much herd mentality. New ideas easily come from unique people. News ideas slowly come from common people or people who want to fit in with the crowd. People can't succeed by screwing over other people, 'cuz this is no different than robbery.

Chinese society doesn't understand the value of constructive competition as oppose to juvenile competition. People don't compare and contrast the pros and cons of stuff and use each stuff in its most effective way. They have too much tunnel vision.

People with unique ideas are laughed at in China, they are looked down upon as idiots in China, they are branded as troublemakers in China, and they are ostracized by China. People who succeed by corruption are worshiped, and people who succeed by hard work are ignored.

People in China worship money too much, and they undervalue the importance of self expression, personal accountability, morals, environmental health, personal health, and positive relationships.

America has all of these problems, too, but China's herd mentality makes things A LOT worse. The positive news is China is improving. I notice Chinese people (from old to young in all parts of society) are more willing to express themselves without fear of social criticisms and Chinese people are becoming more responsible for their actions whether they are right or wrong, but the herd is still really big and nasty.

Click to expand...

Im in agreement with you to a certain extent on some aspects of your comparison. This herd mentality though isnt just a Chinese trait though.

My wife has noticed after many years of teaching that Chinese are a lot more reserved in open discussion groups. She hasnt decided whether its from lack of confidence in using English in a vigorous debate, thus instinctively they defer more capable person to speak for them.

pla101prc said:

that's a pretty weak argument. its generally accepted that within a serious academic realm (at least in canada) as soon as you throw out the phrase "communist China" you are seriously discrediting yourself.

Click to expand...

It is what they are a Communist government I know you are mentally incapable of holding them responsible for the selfish protectionist things they do in the name of perpetuating their power.

The United States in the last Thirty years has bent over back wards reducing tariffs and other trade barriers and china has not come close reciprocating and abuses are good will.

What part of China Communist Party do you not understand.

cmb=1968 said:

It is what they are a Communist government I know you are mentally incapable of holding them responsible for the selfish protectionist things they do in the name of perpetuating their power.

The United States in the last Thirty years has bent over back wards reducing tariffs and other trade barriers and china has not come close reciprocating and abuses are good will.

What part of China Communist Party do you not understand.

Click to expand...

What part of it do you not understand? Being "communist" means precisely that it is god given rights for China to do "selfish protectionist things... in the name of perpetuating their power". Being the "west" or any other of its derivative term means the player is bounded by the rules. Being "communists" or any other of its derivative term means the player is exempted from the rules.

Whether the US has bent over at all is debatable. But the point is, if a player who is supposed to be bounded by the rules doesn't actually follow them to the letter, then why should a player exempted from the rules even need to consider them?

pla101prc said:

i shall wait for a person who actually know China inside out(aside from myself) to counter your argument. too lazy to do it myself.

the history of tariffs and trade barriers isnt something a sensible American should take pride in...it just contradicts everything else they try to get everyone else to do.
personally i wouldnt want China to innovate itself into a big financial tsunami LOL

Click to expand...

You don't know China inside-out. China is a vast nation/region. The same goes with America, Europe, Russia, Japan, etc. The fact that you claim to know China inside-out shows how you don't know very much about China, but probably very little.

What? Are you going to tell me to read a "book of truth" like the last time we had a debate? Please. Many professors and authors couldn't survive without welfare or lots of assistance. They know how to write, but they sure don't know reality. Only an idiot would spend time and money on their junk knowledge and tout it as evidence of intelligence.

I am certain you know some stuff about China, but you surely don't know China inside-out. Maybe you lack good English skills, thus, you choose the wrong words to express yourself. Let me try my limited Chinese on you and hope you understand: Ni3 mei2you3 lian4zi4. Ni3 ying1gai1 lian4ju4.

If you're too lazy to reply, then I suggest you should avoid message boards or any type of discussions. If you can't handle different opinions, then I suggest you should avoid talking to most people around the world, and just stick with your herd. Moooo! BaAaAh!

Anyhow, is there anyone else who would like to share their various ideas with me on this discussion board about how to improve/fix China's creativity?

cmb=1968 said:

It is what they are a Communist government I know you are mentally incapable of holding them responsible for the selfish protectionist things they do in the name of perpetuating their power.

The United States in the last Thirty years has bent over back wards reducing tariffs and other trade barriers and china has not come close reciprocating and abuses are good will.

What part of China Communist Party do you not understand.

Click to expand...

Haha, let me get a shot at these dumb statements. Behold! The mirror of stupidity:

[sarcasm]It is what they, the US, are: a greedy capitalist government. I know you are mentally incapable of holding them responsible for the selfish protectionist things they do all around the world under the pretext of democracy and justice.

China in the last 30 years has labored extremely hard in learning from the world and trading with the world without starting wars and violating nations' sovereignty. The US has not come close to being as respectful towards other nation's sovereignty.

What part of greedy capitalism do you not understand?[/sarcasm]


Look, if you are only going to give stupid answers you're going to get stupid answers in return.