F-18 shot down by Iraqi MIG?

DPRKPTboat

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
The Iraqi air force was largely ineffectual during both Gulf wars, although it was flying in the first one. I thought it had scored no air to air kills, until I took a look at this...

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According to this, an F-18 was shot down by an Iraqi MiG-25 near Baghdad:

DATE/TIME D/L TYPE UNIT LOCATION CAUSE
1/17 0200Z Loss F/A-18C VFA-81 29nm SE Baghdad MiG-25PD
Can anyone confirm this? Any news articles or anything?
 
The_Zergling

The_Zergling

Junior Member
Well, I've heard of this story several times... as far as I know it was originally reported as a SAM kill, afterwards changed to shot down by MiG-25.

And apparently people believe the pilot is still alive...

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DPRKPTboat

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
The_Zergling said:
Well, I've heard of this story several times... as far as I know it was originally reported as a SAM kill, afterwards changed to shot down by MiG-25.

And apparently people believe the pilot is still alive...

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Click to expand...

I really doubt that. He would have turned up by now. That website was probably made by friends and relatives who couldn't accept that he was dead. That's understandurble, though.
So an SA-6 was fired as well. I wonder if there was any hard evidence to say the MiG brought Speicher down. I don't see why it couldn't. The MIG-25 was one of the most capable Iraqi interceptors, and could outrun the F-18. I would love to see the testimony of the Iraqi pilot who flew that thing, see what he has to say.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
I seriously dont believe MR. Speicher is still alive. If he was, wouldnt the insurgents already have used him as hostage? If they will use news reporters, why not a USAF pilot, who gives them even more leverage?
 
The_Zergling

The_Zergling

Junior Member
That's what I thought too. Except the website apparently is still active, something that I found very odd. You'd think Saddam would have used Speicher as a bargaining chip if they really had him.
 
DPRKPTboat

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
Maybe he wasn't actually captured after he ejected, or if he did eject. Maybe he was wandering in the desert, evading capture, and died there. But I'm not sure about that theory as he was close to Baghdad when he was shot down. Most likely he died when his plane exploded.

EternalVigil said:
It was a SAM.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should see some evidence of that then. Because at the moment I haven't seen any reliable evidence that the Hornet was shot down by a MiG or a SAM.
 
Gollevainen

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Acording to all printed sources of mine, coming from respectfull western publsihers, It was MiG-25 that shot down the Hornet.

As said, those who claiming it was shoot down by SAMs, please provide your source, as the MiG-25 as the shooter is well know and widely recognized...
 
A

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
The wiki entry for MiG-25 reads:
The MiG-25's acknowledged combat record by the West is one F/A-18 Hornet during the First Gulf War, when an Iraqi MiG-25PD shot down a U.S. Navy F/A-18C on January 17, 1991, 29 nautical miles southeast of Baghdad. In that particular instance, the MiG was able to evade other attacking aircraft with impunity, due to its ability to make a high speed escape.

Wiki entries are not always reliable, but I've read several other articles describing the incident. One article as I recall, blamed the USAF AWACS controller who failed to notify (human error) the F-18 pilot and allowed the MiG-25 to get on its tail, and shot it down with a R-60/AA-6 AAM. Here's the ACIG description:

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Note 6: The team of ACIG.org researchers obtained exclusive materials describing the interception of an USN F/A-18 Hornet aircraft by an IrAF MiG-25PD at exactly the time and in place where the plane flown by Lt.Cdr. Speicher was shot down, in the early morning of 17 January 1991. Considering the available evidence, we are now convinced that Lt.Cdr. Speicher was shot down by an Iraqi MiG-25 "Foxbat", using a single R-40/AA-6 Acrid missile - despite explanations by other IrAF pilots we interviewed previously, that none of them would know about any Iraqi pilot to have scored an air-to-air kill against Coalition aircraft during this war.
 
BrotherofSnake

BrotherofSnake

Junior Member
EternalVigil said:
It was a SAM.
Click to expand...
Speicher was shot by an AA-6 from behind.

I seriously dont believe MR. Speicher is still alive. If he was, wouldnt the insurgents already have used him as hostage? If they will use news reporters, why not a USAF pilot, who gives them even more leverage?
Click to expand...
He's from the Navy.
 
DPRKPTboat

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
Strange, I'm surprised no other Iraqi pilots knew about the incident. Perhaps the MiG pilot was shot down shortly afterwards.
Iraq probably also used the MiG-25 in the no-fly zone infiltrations - it was faster and could get away easily. And it would have also been useful in their "SAMbushes", where they would go close to Coalition aircraft and lure them towards a SAM site or into Iraqi airspace. It would have been suitable as it was faster than any Coalition aircraft.
 
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