China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

Basically, this is what I wrote a while ago.

Y-9's range with 15 t payload is 2200 km accordng to Huitong. It looks semi-credible if we look at Y-8 figures from SAC website.
For Y-8F400,
Range at maximum payload of 15t is given as 2150 km. Ferry flight range is 4500 km.
For Y-8F600
Range at maximum payload of 20t is given as 1700 km. Ferry flight range is 4800 km.

So, we could do an estimate on 15t range of Y-8F600 by 2150 x (4800/4500) = 2293 km. If Y-8F600 is more efficient relative to Y-8F400 at higher payload, then maybe that range can be increased to 2400 km.

Y-9 maximum is 5800 km according to its Chinese designers in this flightglobal article. So, if we do our previous calculation, 2150 x (5800/4500) = 2770 km. So, around 2800 km for 15 t, better than 2200 km claimed by Huitong, but still pales to C-130J

From ,
Range with 35,000 pounds of Payload: (15.9 t)
C-130E, 1,438 miles (1,250 nautical miles) -> (2314 km)
C-130H, 1,496 miles (1,300 nautical miles) -> (2407 km)
C-130J, 1,841 miles (1,600 nautical miles) -> (2962 km)
C-130J-30, 2,417 miles (2,100 nautical miles) -> (3889 km)

Lion said:

PLAAF can order many Y-9 and when Y-20 is finally enter service and in significant numbers. PLAAF can sold this second hand Y-9 with decent airframe to other countries. They offer an attractive alternative compare to C-130J.

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look at the range difference with 15 ton payload. On top of that, they still require 4 pilots for Y-9. Who are these countries that would be in line for these second hand Y-9s?

kroko said:

Cant find it. Besides, how do you know y-9 performance? the plane has barely started flying.


Anyway, besides the new engine, what are the diferences betwen y-8 and y-9?

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I posted the relevant parts above.

Lion said:

I think Y-9 payload shall be more than 30 tons and comparable to France A400. Given the new six blade composite turboprop engine. I can't believe if it still have a payload of only 20tons.

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There is what you believe and there is also reality. Y-9's specs are public. I need to dig them up and post them here sometimes.

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

tphuang said:

C-130J, 1,841 miles (1,600 nautical miles) -> (2962 km)
C-130J-30, 2,417 miles (2,100 nautical miles) -> (3889 km)

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tphuang, AFAIK c130j-30 is just a stretched (4,6 meters) version of C-130J, heavier (1,5 t) but with the same engines. where did you get that 3889 km number ?

At 2800km its praticaly the same as c-130J. I dont understand why you say it "pales".

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

tphuang said:

Basically, this is what I wrote a while ago.

Y-9's range with 15 t payload is 2200 km accordng to Huitong. It looks semi-credible if we look at Y-8 figures from SAC website.
For Y-8F400,
Range at maximum payload of 15t is given as 2150 km. Ferry flight range is 4500 km.
For Y-8F600
Range at maximum payload of 20t is given as 1700 km. Ferry flight range is 4800 km.

So, we could do an estimate on 15t range of Y-8F600 by 2150 x (4800/4500) = 2293 km. If Y-8F600 is more efficient relative to Y-8F400 at higher payload, then maybe that range can be increased to 2400 km.

Y-9 maximum is 5800 km according to its Chinese designers in this flightglobal article. So, if we do our previous calculation, 2150 x (5800/4500) = 2770 km. So, around 2800 km for 15 t, better than 2200 km claimed by Huitong, but still pales to C-130J

From

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,
Range with 35,000 pounds of Payload: (15.9 t)
C-130E, 1,438 miles (1,250 nautical miles) -> (2314 km)
C-130H, 1,496 miles (1,300 nautical miles) -> (2407 km)
C-130J, 1,841 miles (1,600 nautical miles) -> (2962 km)
C-130J-30, 2,417 miles (2,100 nautical miles) -> (3889 km)



look at the range difference with 15 ton payload. On top of that, they still require 4 pilots for Y-9. Who are these countries that would be in line for these second hand Y-9s?


I posted the relevant parts above.



There is what you believe and there is also reality. Y-9's specs are public. I need to dig them up and post them here sometimes.

Click to expand...

The Y-9 and Y-8 are two very different aircrafts in terms of size and weight. The above calculation may work for different variants of Y-8 but it can't be extrapolated to the Y-9. Two aircrafts of very different sizes may have the same ferry range of, let's say 3000km but the larger aircraft will always have the capacity to transport a larger payload (that is roughly proportional to the two aircraft's size differences) to a distance of 1500 km, as an example.

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

jackliu said:

What year was this 50 million dollar deal? Also would it be possible that it is a lot cheaper to operate and maintain the Y-8 than Il-76?

edit...

Ok, I found it out, it was 1.5 billion signed in 2005 for 38 planes, which is 40 million a piece, in 2007, 2 years later Russia want to increase it to 1.9 which makes it 50 million a piece.

So who knows now in 2012, 5 years later what would the price by now. Maybe Venezuela even seek to purchase IL-76 from Russia but the sticker price was too high?

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This recent Article would answer your question. IL-476 cost US$100 million today



Russia's Defense Ministry on Thursday signed a contract worth about 140 billion rubles ($4 billion) to buy 39 IL-476 transport planes, President Vladimir Putin announced.

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

Dolcevita said:

This recent Article would answer your question. IL-476 cost US$100 million today

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Russia's Defense Ministry on Thursday signed a contract worth about 140 billion rubles ($4 billion) to buy 39 IL-476 transport planes, President Vladimir Putin announced.

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One plane cost more than USD100 million. THat is steep!

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

Dolcevita said:

This recent Article would answer your question. IL-476 cost US$100 million today

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Russia's Defense Ministry on Thursday signed a contract worth about 140 billion rubles ($4 billion) to buy 39 IL-476 transport planes, President Vladimir Putin announced.

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That's a lot even by Western standard, and they are selling it to themselves. It is probably going to be a lot more selling for exports.

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

jackliu said:

That's a lot even by Western standard, and they are selling it to themselves. It is probably going to be a lot more selling for exports.

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nobody would buy it, even India

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

jackliu said:

That's a lot even by Western standard, and they are selling it to themselves. It is probably going to be a lot more selling for exports.

Click to expand...

Probably the price included shifting of the production plant back to Russia from Turkmenistan. That explain the steep price.

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

bare c17 still costs usaf little over 200 million. for export that goes to 250 million, over 300 million if one includes logistic support and optional equipment. c17 is larger, of course.

a400m is smaller than il476 range wise is payload weight wise (the same in payload area ) yet it still costs close to 200 million, probably with logistic support.

il476 seems set to sell for about 130 to 150 million for export, with logisitic support. that is still pretty good, considering its range, payload weight...

Re: China's Transport Aircraft

Btw what does Il-476 look like any pictures?