China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

S

Schumacher

Senior Member
tphuang said:
Even though it's not designed for supercruise, F-135 shows the upgrade potentials of F-119. I had a discussion a couple of years ago with someone WAB who was telling me F-119 could easily get up to 40k pound of thrust. Of course, you want to keep it lower during training, because that's how you reduce wear and tear on the engine and get longer service life. But if you don't believe this point, that's fine.

As for CJ1000, do you have any real number on it? Back in 2009, there was an article by SEARI that proposed two different kind of high by pass engines, one is basically WS-18 and the other is basically WS-20. .....................
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It's an incremental upgrade at best if you want to call it that. More like compromising one feature for another. F119/F135 are essentially same tech level as WS15, no generational gap.

The CJ1000 numbers are comparable to LeapX, that's what it's marketed as. All I'm looking for in a counter argument is just proofs why it can't be achieved. Not 'let's see results first'. My grandma can say 'let's see results first'.
Well, we are here today talking about Chinese aviation in 2020. We obviously can't see results yet unless we have a time machine.
These are real companies putting tens of billions where their mouth is putting up real plans for the future. None will make plans for future if we just need to 'see results first'.

This is not about being optimistic/pessimistic. WS15, CJ1000 etc are real plans out there for about 2020. None can guarantee the future but if/when they are ready, the simple unbiased conclusion is it'll put Chinese aviation on same level as US.
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Schumacher said:
It's an incremental upgrade at best if you want to call it that. More like compromising one feature for another. F119/F135 are essentially same tech level as WS15, no generational gap.

The CJ1000 numbers are comparable to LeapX, that's what it's marketed as. All I'm looking for in a counter argument is just proofs why it can't be achieved. Not 'let's see results first'. My grandma can say 'let's see results first'.
Well, we are here today talking about Chinese aviation in 2020. We obviously can't see results yet unless we have a time machine.
These are real companies putting tens of billions where their mouth is putting up real plans for the future. None will make plans for future if we just need to 'see results first'.

This is not about being optimistic/pessimistic. WS15, CJ1000 etc are real plans out there for about 2020. None can guarantee the future but if/when they are ready, the simple unbiased conclusion is it'll put Chinese aviation on same level as US.
Click to expand...

But simply the US developed the F119 already since the 1990s !!! ... and the mentioned Chinese equivalents still have to show their performance !

Deino
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Schumacher said:
It's an incremental upgrade at best if you want to call it that. More like compromising one feature for another. F119/F135 are essentially same tech level as WS15, no generational gap.
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or the number of years since F119 has allowed for the incremental gain. Let's drop this one, since WS-15/F119 is actually not related to transport.
The CJ1000 numbers are comparable to LeapX, that's what it's marketed as. All I'm looking for in a counter argument is just proofs why it can't be achieved. Not 'let's see results first'. My grandma can say 'let's see results first'.
Well, we are here today talking about Chinese aviation in 2020. We obviously can't see results yet unless we have a time machine.
These are real companies putting tens of billions where their mouth is putting up real plans for the future. None will make plans for future if we just need to 'see results first'.

This is not about being optimistic/pessimistic. WS15, CJ1000 etc are real plans out there for about 2020. None can guarantee the future but if/when they are ready, the simple unbiased conclusion is it'll put Chinese aviation on same level as US.
Click to expand...

interesting that you brought up CJ1000 numbers. Do you have any number on its bypass ratio or pressure ratio or fuel consumption data? I've only seen the poster with its picture and no specs under it.
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
Deino said:
But simply the US developed the F119 already since the 1990s !!! ... and the mentioned Chinese equivalents still have to show their performance !

Deino
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Except of course we're talking about 2020, not 90s or even today.
Lucky aren't we to live in a world where being ahead/behind one point in time doesn't automatically mean the same in the future.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Schumacher said:
It's an incremental upgrade at best if you want to call it that. More like compromising one feature for another. F119/F135 are essentially same tech level as WS15, no generational gap.

The CJ1000 numbers are comparable to LeapX, that's what it's marketed as. All I'm looking for in a counter argument is just proofs why it can't be achieved. Not 'let's see results first'. My grandma can say 'let's see results first'.
Well, we are here today talking about Chinese aviation in 2020. We obviously can't see results yet unless we have a time machine.
These are real companies putting tens of billions where their mouth is putting up real plans for the future. None will make plans for future if we just need to 'see results first'.

This is not about being optimistic/pessimistic. WS15, CJ1000 etc are real plans out there for about 2020. None can guarantee the future but if/when they are ready, the simple unbiased conclusion is it'll put Chinese aviation on same level as US.
Click to expand...

I think you better go see your grandma, maybe she could box your ears for you, you're spinning a few yarns here son, since the evidence is on the side of your opposition, you're the one who needs to produce evidence, so go ahead put it out there???? As they say, talk is cheap....Brat
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
Schumacher said:
This is not about being optimistic/pessimistic. WS15, CJ1000 etc are real plans out there for about 2020. None can guarantee the future but if/when they are ready, the simple unbiased conclusion is it'll put Chinese aviation on same level as US.
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The US would have moved on by then, so China may have closed the gap somewhat.
 
A

A.Man

Major
Not Much Differences Between Y-9 and Upgraded Y-8

136679828440951.jpg
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Schumacher said:
Indeed talk is cheap, so look instead to China's very expensive projects to deliver WS15 etc by 2020.
What plan does US have to replace F119 etc with the next generation so as to ensure China is "no where near the technological capabilities of the West" by then ? as claimed by our friend earlier in this thread. Or maybe that's just cheap talk.
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I think the bigger question is why are we getting into another pissing contest vis a vis nation A vs nation B?

Unless US and China is in some sort of international contest to see who can make a better engine this conversation is going no where.

China has made monumental leaps in turbofan development in the past decade. I think everyone agrees on that. US has been making turbofans since the end WWII and is currently the most experienced engine maker in the world.

Will China catch u one day? perhaps.. maybe even likely. Will they catch up by 2020, 2030 etc ..don't know.. but more importantly the answer is it doesn't matter. The fact is BOTH countries are doing great things in R & D on engine development and when news come out on EITHER side we should rejoice and talk about those specific things.
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
kwaigonegin said:
I think the bigger question is why are we getting into another pissing contest vis a vis nation A vs nation B?
...................
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Good question, some started to compare Chinese turbofans vs others with inaccurate observations. Naturally, a response is given.
The conclusion, regarding the jet engine scene, I arrive at using widely available info & simple logic appears shocking & uncomfortable to some.
 
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Broccoli

Broccoli

Senior Member
So PLAAF is going to purchase only "balance beam" systems? I guess when the C919 starts rolling out of production line, then we are going to see something like the Boeing 737 AEW&C system.

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