let's lower the expectations a little bit. The reliability of the Chinese engines really need a lot of work. China passing Russia is possible in the next 10 years, but it's a long way behind the big 3.
China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft
- Thread starter Totoro
- Start date
let's lower the expectations a little bit. The reliability of the Chinese engines really need a lot of work. China passing Russia is possible in the next 10 years, but it's a long way behind the big 3.
I'm sorry... but I don't follow here... why is it that it was unlikely for the US to have a new generation of engines to replace F119/F110 by 2020?
Schumacher
Senior Member
Hmm ... I think you're trying to say you disagree with me but I don't see much evidence in your post.
Schumacher
Senior Member
What is the planned successor of F119 ?
There are some engines under development, might not be as definitive as the Chinese WS-15, but research and development are ongoing. one such development is the variable cycle jet engine.
Unlike the Chinese whose design and manufacturing capability in modern engines only started to matured in recent years... the US had already matured their design and manufacturing capability in the said area for quite some time and with multiple companies that are very good in this area. I believe that they could still make engines that could match or even outmatch the Chinese counterpart if needs be.
Schumacher
Senior Member
There're definitely some revolutionary stuffs I hear of they have, but then again so do China that can get thrust/weight ratio well past 10. But these are stuffs in the lab. If either of them don't have a definite development plan in place by now, we won't be seeing them by 2020.
The T/W ratio for F-135 is 11.5, which is higher than the yet to be produced WS-15. The high bypass ratio for Leap-X series is from 8 to 10, which is much higher than the expected high bypass ratio for WS-20.
Schumacher
Senior Member
F135 is a F119 derivative which sacrifices supercruise capabilities for thrust, not comparable to WS15/F119 which are designed to supercruise. China can use the WS15 core to do a F135 type if they want to.
I didn't compare WS20 to LeapX, I said CJ1000.
Next.
Even though it's not designed for supercruise, F-135 shows the upgrade potentials of F-119. I had a discussion a couple of years ago with someone WAB who was telling me F-119 could easily get up to 40k pound of thrust. Of course, you want to keep it lower during training, because that's how you reduce wear and tear on the engine and get longer service life. But if you don't believe this point, that's fine.
As for CJ1000, do you have any real number on it? Back in 2009, there was an article by SEARI that proposed two different kind of high by pass engines, one is basically WS-18 and the other is basically WS-20. It came out that, WS-18 was expected to have a bypass ratio of 3 to 1 while achieving fuel consumption rate of 0.67 to 0.68 compared to 2.42 to 1 and 0.7 for D-30KP2. WS-20 was expected to have bypass ratio of 5-6 to 1 , while ahcieving fuel consumption rate of 0.6 to 0.62 compared to 4.6 to 1 and 0.595 for PS-90A. These are all comparable at least to recent variants of CFM-56. Not really sure about noise level and such.
Now, the new generation of Leap-X and GTF are getting 15% better fuel consumption than CFM-56 series of engines. So, that would get it down to close 0.5 for fuel consumption along with bypass ratio up to 9-12 to 1. On top of this, you also see huge improvements in noise level. It took CFM and P&W years to go from CFM-56 level of engine to Leap-X and GTF. China has not even produced WS-20 yet and you expect CJ1000A to reach the level of engine that's one generation ahead?
I'm just putting this out there to show you how much hope you are putting on the Chinese AeroEngine designers and manufacturers. On top of this, they still have to actually develop and successfully manufacture WS-12 or whatever else they are developing to catch up to F414 and then a domestic version of AI-222-25K. They have many project in the pipeline and they are putting serious money in there. That's good, but let's see the results first.