ARJ 21's mainwing design they had a hand in, that';s public.
these exchange and helps are normal.
china even went to bombardier for help on some projects.
China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft - esp. Y-20/YY-20
- Thread starter Totoro
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ARJ 21's mainwing design they had a hand in, that';s public.
these exchange and helps are normal.
china even went to bombardier for help on some projects.
sorry i.e. what was your point???? and guys be nice to eric, one should be polite with ones guests, and I for one and happy to hear the Russian perspective.
Eric, while you are here, would you be so kind as to start a T-50 thread, I have been very frustrated to not be able to find info on the net, that is of the quality served up here, I am particularly interested in what they found in the way of issues on 01???? It is counterproductive to pretend that Russian/China have not partnered on Many, Many projects....
Feel free to pm me Eric. Brat
The key trade off on a transport wing design has always been...
L/D vs wing root bending moment.
longer aspect ratio wing => higher L/D => higher cruise efficiency.
longer aspect ratio wing => higher wing root bending moment => higher loads => heavier weight.
what is everyone missing (including many in the industry) is that there is a third dimension now possible.
actively control the wing root bending moment via fbw technology.
wing design has two basic goals...
besides cruise L/D.
wing design also strive for higher aoa. CLmax criutical for field length considerations.
L/D vs wing root bending moment.
longer aspect ratio wing => higher L/D => higher cruise efficiency.
longer aspect ratio wing => higher wing root bending moment => higher loads => heavier weight.
what is everyone missing (including many in the industry) is that there is a third dimension now possible.
actively control the wing root bending moment via fbw technology.
wing design has two basic goals...
besides cruise L/D.
wing design also strive for higher aoa. CLmax criutical for field length considerations.
I know flateric from keyforum days until I was banned there.
I always had a repsect and admiration for russian aviation and aviation enthuists.
hello flateric, nice to see you again.
yes,
but imho, this is bit pointless.
considered that the current generation winglet configurations are a result of a loads compromise anyways... its a attempt to increse the effect aspect ratio with out adding intolerable loads (busting outside of baseline designed loads envelope).
if you want to extract the maximum aero efficiency out of winglets. might as well make them same diahedral as the main wing (hint hint take a look at 787's wing) and just make a longer aspect ratio wing.
for loads increases... use active control to suppress the loads,,, for outboard ailerons are much for effective and less complicated then the schematic indicated.(i.e. mini ailerons on vertical fins) for aileron the hardware and system is already there as part of a normal flight control system... ..
===
also unloading outboard wing has also benefits at higher aoas. basically articially add twist when one needs it, and take it out when you don't need it. more on that later...
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I never denied those project mention did get help. But Y-20 has grow out of any russian/ ukrarine company help except probably Boeing assist which is impossible given that this is a strategic military project. From the outlook and some of the technique deploy for Y-20. It is hugely a indignenuous. even the engine I believe is bought off shelf from Russian side and from intergrating on Y-20 to installing effort are hugely own Chinese effort.
If one wants to claim assist. Sharing a similar trend and traits are important indication of major assist from that particular company. because asist is usually given from their area of understanding their own product. L-15 is a great example help from yakpolev based on their Yak-130.
I think china aero design and manufacturing technique has matured into a very capable unit that prove many projects like J-20, J-31 ,JF-17, WZ-10 and Y-20 are largely own effort with lots of mature and advance features that make its way into each and others.
The perception of anything new thing from china must have major assist from some other countries shall put to rest.
So funny
Lion is admitting help from Antonov with ARJ21 with the key element for every passenger plane airframe, i.e. wing, and ARJ21 has no any common family shape with Antonov passenger and cargo planes...
while Kingping forward fuselage and pronounced wing fairing does have
Regarding T-tail that 'Boeing couldn't help with' (that started its history from AMST planes), try to read something about Mr. Dongfan “Greg” Chung and his rich home library...
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