China's Defense/Military Breaking News Thread
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Re: Chinese Military News Thread
Anyone want to guess what the real figure is? $40 billion? $50 billion? If SIPRI's 2004 figures are correct, it would be around $45 billion. So perhaps China's spending has now overtaken that of Japan's.....
I find it interesting that the budget is now increasing faster that the economy is growing. Is this in relations to the Taiwanese NUC, or was it always going to happen? And will such growth be natural from now on, or will it drop down next year?
Anyone want to guess what the real figure is? $40 billion? $50 billion? If SIPRI's 2004 figures are correct, it would be around $45 billion. So perhaps China's spending has now overtaken that of Japan's.....
I find it interesting that the budget is now increasing faster that the economy is growing. Is this in relations to the Taiwanese NUC, or was it always going to happen? And will such growth be natural from now on, or will it drop down next year?
Re: Chinese Military News Thread
Actually, the budget had been increasing (slightly) faster than the GDP for a few years now. Last year, for example, was 12%. They have seen great rise in wages and pensions and logistical equipment, however, so it is perhaps justifiable to say that most of increase goes to personnel and other non directly military applications. Without a detailed breakdown of the spending it is hard to say.
Actually, the budget had been increasing (slightly) faster than the GDP for a few years now. Last year, for example, was 12%. They have seen great rise in wages and pensions and logistical equipment, however, so it is perhaps justifiable to say that most of increase goes to personnel and other non directly military applications. Without a detailed breakdown of the spending it is hard to say.
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Re: Chinese Military News Thread
Yes, I remember now - I had a look at the previous figures after I posted, but forgot to update my post.
Well if we don't have a detailed breakdown of the spending then I don't think it is justifiable to say it's only spent on "non-threatening" things.
I'm sure that pay increases are part of the increases, but I doubt that most of the money is being spent just on such things. Otherwise where does China's shiny new planes, ships and tanks come from?
Personally I feel that China simply hurts its image by the lack of transparency over its budget. Everyone knows the figures are a fib, so why do they pretend that they're not spending so much? It's international "stock" might actually increase through being honest.
Troika said:
Yes, I remember now - I had a look at the previous figures after I posted, but forgot to update my post.
Well if we don't have a detailed breakdown of the spending then I don't think it is justifiable to say it's only spent on "non-threatening" things.
I'm sure that pay increases are part of the increases, but I doubt that most of the money is being spent just on such things. Otherwise where does China's shiny new planes, ships and tanks come from?Personally I feel that China simply hurts its image by the lack of transparency over its budget. Everyone knows the figures are a fib, so why do they pretend that they're not spending so much? It's international "stock" might actually increase through being honest.
Re: Chinese Military News Thread
I never said it was so, but that it is non-direct military applications. And I think you will find that the speed of shiny new planes acquisition hadn't increased particularly quickly, and in the case of military hardware purchased from us it was not in the budget anyway. Taking into account the rise in pay scale, which we do know, and pensions, is why I believe most of it isn't on weapons but things like pay and logistics. This is not to say this does not increase the capability of the PLA, far from it, having good personnel and logistics is easily doing more for fighting ability than mere weapons, if judiciously applied.
As for increased stock... well, there are arguments on both sides. On one hand you allow much closer scrutiny on spending pattern, which is never a good thing, especially when same people perhaps forward the China threat theory anyway. On the other hand of course you have the benefits you described.
FuManChu said:Yes, I remember now - I had a look at the previous figures after I posted, but forgot to update my post.
Well if we don't have a detailed breakdown of the spending then I don't think it is justifiable to say it's only spent on "non-threatening" things.
Personally I feel that China simply hurts its image by the lack of transparency over its budget. Everyone knows the figures are a fib, so why do they pretend that they're not spending so much? It's international "stock" might actually increase through being honest.
I never said it was so, but that it is non-direct military applications. And I think you will find that the speed of shiny new planes acquisition hadn't increased particularly quickly, and in the case of military hardware purchased from us it was not in the budget anyway. Taking into account the rise in pay scale, which we do know, and pensions, is why I believe most of it isn't on weapons but things like pay and logistics. This is not to say this does not increase the capability of the PLA, far from it, having good personnel and logistics is easily doing more for fighting ability than mere weapons, if judiciously applied.
As for increased stock... well, there are arguments on both sides. On one hand you allow much closer scrutiny on spending pattern, which is never a good thing, especially when same people perhaps forward the China threat theory anyway. On the other hand of course you have the benefits you described.
MIGleader
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Re: Chinese Military News Thread
Rand put last years budget at some $65 Billion. This may be a bit blown, but its mr\ore accurate than the pentagon. So this year, china may be spending nearly $75 billion, which is an awful lot. But considering how so many new weapons(j-10, type 99, yuan) have matured developemnt, this may be primarily targeted towards equipment aquisition along with offsetting rising gas prices.
Totoro said:RAND study also put last year's budget at around 40 something billion. So a true 45-50 billion budget for 2006 seems right. Imagine if every program gets a 14% increase.... how many more j10s per year would that make?
Rand put last years budget at some $65 Billion. This may be a bit blown, but its mr\ore accurate than the pentagon. So this year, china may be spending nearly $75 billion, which is an awful lot. But considering how so many new weapons(j-10, type 99, yuan) have matured developemnt, this may be primarily targeted towards equipment aquisition along with offsetting rising gas prices.
MIGleader
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Re: Chinese Military News Thread
China Holds Military Exercises Amid Taiwan Tensions
From Defencetalk news.
Quote:
"China is this week staging military exercises, state press said March 3, coinciding with a spike in tensions with Taiwan and the start of the nation’s annual parliamentary session.
The joint air force, army and navy exercises began on March 1 and are aimed at simulating modern battle conditions using advanced information technology, the China Daily reported, without saying when they would end.
The People’s Liberation Army Daily newspaper said the exercises were being carried out in the Shenyang, Guangzhou, Beijing and Chengdu military command regions, simulating the deployment of troops hundreds of kilometers away.
Photos posted on official government websites showed navy transport ships carrying tanks and armored personnel carriers, with the vehicles disembarking from the ships onto beaches.
The exercises began just after Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian scrapped unification guidelines with the mainland on Tuesday, a move that Beijing said would endanger peace in the Taiwan Strait and the Asia Pacific region.
Since nationalist armies fled to Taiwan following their civil war defeat to communist forces in 1949, China has viewed the island as a renegade province to be reunified, by force if necessary.
Beijing has insisted that formal Taiwan independence would mean war and has strongly warned Chen from making any moves in that direction.
The state press did not link the exercises to the heightened cross-strait tensions but Joseph Cheng, a noted China watcher at the City University of Hong Kong, told AFP, they were meant to be a low-key signal to the island.
”Certainly this is an attempt to exert pressure on Chen Shui-bian,” Joseph Cheng said.
”Military exercises are probably seen as an appropriate warning at this stage.”
Beijing needed to show it was being serious with Taiwan as delegates for the annual session of the National People’s Congress gather in the capital that starts on Sunday, he said.
At the same time, China would not want to ratchet up tensions too high and create a negative atmosphere for the summit between President Hu Jintao and his U.S. counterpart George W. Bush in Washington next month, he said ”Chinese leaders want Bush to understand that they are exercising restraint. By showing this, they are in a better position to get the Bush administration to put pressure on Chen Shui-bian,” he said.
China has previously staged much more intense military exercises in a bid to intimidate Taiwan’s independence movement.
The bullying tactic backfired spectacularly in 1996 when Lee Teng-hui, much-vilified by Beijing, won Taiwan’s first direct presidential vote despite missile tests intended to warn the island’s voters against supporting him."
Hope this produces some good pics:china:
China Holds Military Exercises Amid Taiwan Tensions
From Defencetalk news.
Quote:
"China is this week staging military exercises, state press said March 3, coinciding with a spike in tensions with Taiwan and the start of the nation’s annual parliamentary session.
The joint air force, army and navy exercises began on March 1 and are aimed at simulating modern battle conditions using advanced information technology, the China Daily reported, without saying when they would end.
The People’s Liberation Army Daily newspaper said the exercises were being carried out in the Shenyang, Guangzhou, Beijing and Chengdu military command regions, simulating the deployment of troops hundreds of kilometers away.
Photos posted on official government websites showed navy transport ships carrying tanks and armored personnel carriers, with the vehicles disembarking from the ships onto beaches.
The exercises began just after Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian scrapped unification guidelines with the mainland on Tuesday, a move that Beijing said would endanger peace in the Taiwan Strait and the Asia Pacific region.
Since nationalist armies fled to Taiwan following their civil war defeat to communist forces in 1949, China has viewed the island as a renegade province to be reunified, by force if necessary.
Beijing has insisted that formal Taiwan independence would mean war and has strongly warned Chen from making any moves in that direction.
The state press did not link the exercises to the heightened cross-strait tensions but Joseph Cheng, a noted China watcher at the City University of Hong Kong, told AFP, they were meant to be a low-key signal to the island.
”Certainly this is an attempt to exert pressure on Chen Shui-bian,” Joseph Cheng said.
”Military exercises are probably seen as an appropriate warning at this stage.”
Beijing needed to show it was being serious with Taiwan as delegates for the annual session of the National People’s Congress gather in the capital that starts on Sunday, he said.
At the same time, China would not want to ratchet up tensions too high and create a negative atmosphere for the summit between President Hu Jintao and his U.S. counterpart George W. Bush in Washington next month, he said ”Chinese leaders want Bush to understand that they are exercising restraint. By showing this, they are in a better position to get the Bush administration to put pressure on Chen Shui-bian,” he said.
China has previously staged much more intense military exercises in a bid to intimidate Taiwan’s independence movement.
The bullying tactic backfired spectacularly in 1996 when Lee Teng-hui, much-vilified by Beijing, won Taiwan’s first direct presidential vote despite missile tests intended to warn the island’s voters against supporting him."
Hope this produces some good pics:china:
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Re: Chinese Military News Thread
Eh, you think RAND's more accurate than SIPRI? I thought the latter was more correct than the former. Do you have any specific reason to believe that the Chinese budget is so high, or does it just "make sense" given what the armed forces have been rolling out these last few years in terms of new systems?
MIGleader said:
Eh, you think RAND's more accurate than SIPRI? I thought the latter was more correct than the former. Do you have any specific reason to believe that the Chinese budget is so high, or does it just "make sense" given what the armed forces have been rolling out these last few years in terms of new systems?
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