China's 180 degree turn on pollution admissions

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
China vows to dramatically slow emissions growth

By CARA ANNA
Associated Press Writer

BEIJING (AP) -- China promised to slow its carbon emissions, saying it would nearly halve the ratio of pollution to GDP over the next decade - a major move by the world's largest emitter, whose cooperation is crucial to any deal as a global climate summit approaches.

Beijing's voluntary pledge Thursday came a day after President Barack Obama promised the U.S. would lay out plans at the summit to substantially cut its own greenhouse gas emissions. Together, the announcements are building momentum for next month's meeting in Copenhagen.

"Governments from all over the world are delivering before the climate conference," Denmark's Climate Minister Connie Hedegaard said. "U.S. and China have come forward. All across the globe, things are moving. This is good news."

But environmental experts warned that China's plan does not commit it to reducing emissions - and that they will in fact continue to increase, though at a slower rate.

With the United States now offering specifics - reducing carbon dioxide emissions by about 17 percent from 2005 levels by 2020 - China seemed to follow its lead.

China pledged Thursday to cut "carbon intensity," a measure of carbon dioxide emissions per unit of gross domestic product, by 40 to 45 percent by 2020, compared with levels in 2005. Beijing also said Premier Wen Jiabao will take part in the Copenhagen meeting.

"There's no question their carbon emissions would continue to grow under this scenario," said Charlie McElwee, an international environmental and energy lawyer based in Shanghai. "This isn't by any means an agreement by China to either cap, much less reduce, the amount of its carbon emissions. It's only slowing down the rate at which emissions are growing."

If China did nothing and its economy doubles in size as expected in coming years, its emissions would likely double as well. Thursday's pledge means emissions would only increase by 50 percent in such a scenario.

Environmental groups and leaders largely welcomed China's move.

"Before Copenhagen, we desperately need this good news," said Yu Jie, head of policy and research programs for The Climate Group China, a non-governmental group. She described China's 45 percent target as "quite aggressive."

The EU said the plans from the U.S. and China, which together emit about 40 percent of the world's heat-trapping greenhouse gases, were essential to progress at the summit but indicated they still hoped for more. "We will continue to urge the U.S., China and all our other partners in this negotiation to go to the outer limits of what is possible," a statement from Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said.

The announcements over the past two days add significant weight toward achieving a global agreement, though the Dec. 7-18 conference is unlikely to produce a binding deal as hoped.

Leaders now think delegates at Copenhagen will produce at best an outline for an agreement to be considered late next year instead.

But Yvo de Boer, the United Nations climate chief, said the pledges by China and the U.S. pave the way for a deal.

"The U.S. commitment to specific, midterm emission cut targets and China's commitment to specific action on energy efficiency can unlock two of the last doors to a comprehensive agreement," he said.

China has said repeatedly it will seek binding pollution targets for developed countries at Copenhagen - and reject similar requirements for itself. It has said most environmental damage was caused by developed nations during their industrialization over the last 100 to 200 years and that they should take most of the responsibility for the cleanup.

McElwee said the voluntary pledge could mean China doesn't have to stick to its goal - and that it could back out if, for instance, the economy tanks again.

China rejected that argument. "Even though it is voluntary, it is binding domestically," Xie Zhenhua, vice-chairman of the National Development and Reform Commission, told a press conference, while acknowledging meeting the goal would be difficult.

Environmental groups said China is trying to balance its efforts with the need to keep its economy growing quickly to pull people out of poverty.

China's State Council, or Cabinet, said its plan to slow its rate of carbon emissions would come through better research and development, clean coal technology, advanced nuclear energy and better transportation systems. Tax laws and regulations will also be changed to encourage energy efficiency.

"There are two things China will have to do to achieve this. One is to drastically improve energy efficiency, to use energy in a smart way. Second is to massively develop renewable energies," said Yang Ailun, climate campaign manager for Greenpeace China.

"Also, China will have to tackle its overdependency on coal," she said.

But policies are one thing. The major challenge will be making sure local governments implement the goals, she said.

I don't understand this. The conventional wisdom in the last few weeks has been that China would essentially ignore Obama and he Copenhagen talks would fail. Indeed China had every reason to blow off Obama and continue to ignore somewhat hypocritical Western calls for a global admissions policy. China has always put development ahead of environmental protection, and there was no indication that this would change. The Communist Party is a huge ship, and it's tough to turn it around quickly, but there hasn't really been much of an indication that this change was coming in the usual way that the Party tests the waters for other major policy changes (or at least not one that I've seen, so I could be totally wrong).

I have to conclude that China has made this statement, and it will try to cut emissions somewhat, but I seriously doubt they intend to cut them by 40%.

Ha, how embarassing, I accidentally wrote "Admissions" in the thread title.
 
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pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

its not exactly a completely abrupt turn. i mean aside from the green GDP stuff, even Hu Jintao have declared that China will make commitments. this is most likely something that Wen Jiabao have wanted for quite a while, and Hu finally decides to let it happen when obama agrees to make concessions in other places. its a lot of work to come up with a number that you are gonna meet. its not just simply making a statement, you gotta know where you are gonna cut, how you are gonna change, what industry will be affected and all that, so obviously the state department had this planned out for a long time and finally they are allowed to throw it out. more importantly, this is the opportunity that China needed to change th way its economy has been workin. cuttin emission by the measure of per domestic product basically means that China is gonna rely more on high-tech stuff and less on resource intensive industries. like they said, China's aggregate emission level will still be going up cuz China's economy will most likely be growing at a higher rate, more than 45% over the next decade.
 

ravenshield936

Banned Idiot
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

its not exactly a completely abrupt turn. i mean aside from the green GDP stuff, even Hu Jintao have declared that China will make commitments. this is most likely something that Wen Jiabao have wanted for quite a while, and Hu finally decides to let it happen when obama agrees to make concessions in other places. its a lot of work to come up with a number that you are gonna meet. its not just simply making a statement, you gotta know where you are gonna cut, how you are gonna change, what industry will be affected and all that, so obviously the state department had this planned out for a long time and finally they are allowed to throw it out. more importantly, this is the opportunity that China needed to change th way its economy has been workin. cuttin emission by the measure of per domestic product basically means that China is gonna rely more on high-tech stuff and less on resource intensive industries. like they said, China's aggregate emission level will still be going up cuz China's economy will most likely be growing at a higher rate, more than 45% over the next decade.
i agree

japan turned to high-tech when oil shock hit them. as a result japan's industries led japan to good causes such as life expectancy, cleaner cities, industries, and a economy more focused on high tech

for china, i do believe this 40% is an aggressive yet definitely viable target. the amount of coal consumptions and industries falling out of regulation standards in china are probably some of the biggest contributors to the pollution.

it does people bad, and getting rid of these poor systems is an important step to modernization too. plus, if china really waits until it's 1st world nation before start thinking about environmental awareness, it will be too late. also it will be more costly in terms of economics. some business purchasing a hybrid now saves more than to buy a normal car then to a hybrid after.

next, as china is still changing, why not include environmental awareness now right? that way as there are constantly new technology, people can make the change now than to do so later (and will be more reluctant by then to make another change as it costs money). part of the modernization will include phasing out the old and obsolete equipment for better ones, including machinery, policies, buildings, etc.
pumping resources into this industry can be the next big thing, and with china's vast manpower, it is both for survival (1.3 billion people) and an opportunity to create jobs for many and allow china to be one of the leading examples in the future in terms of a greener lifestyle. of course the same time china can develop a leading industry in this and also help speeds up its modernization program.

and the same time this target is implemented, it helps the government to survey its demographics, and a good opportunity to detect malpractices and corruptions and areas that they might formerly have forgotten about.

not only that, the pollution can lead to big medical bills, so u're also helping people to save.

and lastly, reduce 40%, and use that reduction to introduce a better policy or technology that only use half as much, and u still have 20% less pollution. it's definitely a 1 stone, multiple birds thing, and i can see and welcome china's doing this:china:
 

King_Comm

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

Currently, China produces over 1000 tonnes of greenhouse gas per one million dollars GDP, reduce it by 40%, and if it can reduce carbon intensity by another 40% from 2020 to 2030, then the carbon intensity of China will be the same as where EU and Japan are standing today.

like they said, China's aggregate emission level will still be going up cuz China's economy will most likely be growing at a higher rate, more than 45% over the next decade.
If the currect rate of growth is maintained, Chinese economy will doube in size in the next 10 years, so it's like 20% rise in total emission.
 
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Mcsweeney

Junior Member
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

Who cares about Obama. I'm in favour of China aggressively cutting pollution for no one's sake but their own.
 
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bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

I may be wrong but I got the impression that Chinas methodology for reducing emissions through
"carbon intensity," a measure of carbon dioxide emissions per unit of gross domestic product, is not quite the same as a direct emmissions cut. With this method of calculation,it actually comes out less than the United states offer of 17% reduction.
 
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SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

China is learning Western style spin politics to keep its foreign critics at bay and has delivered a master stroke.

There is actually little very new in the announcement. The CCP has been keen to increase energy efficiency and reduce pollution for years and the announcement is little more than tying together a number of pre-existing measures and policies, attaching a definite number target (probably the only new bit) and presenting the package to the media. The fact that target is probably only an aspiration and one that can be progressively adjusted in the coming years, is politically irrelevant.

Somebody said that everybody was expecting China to ignore Obama and Copenhagen. I would go further and say most governments were banking on it, hoping that they were safe in the knowledge that they would have to commit to nothing and be able to blame the failure on China.

China has however handed this right back to them and the reaction in many capitals is one of undisguised panic as they contemplate the upcoming PR disaster!!
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
China is learning Western style spin politics to keep its foreign critics at bay and has delivered a master stroke.

There is actually little very new in the announcement. The CCP has been keen to increase energy efficiency and reduce pollution for years and the announcement is little more than tying together a number of pre-existing measures and policies, attaching a definite number target (probably the only new bit) and presenting the package to the media. The fact that target is probably only an aspiration and one that can be progressively adjusted in the coming years, is politically irrelevant.

Somebody said that everybody was expecting China to ignore Obama and Copenhagen. I would go further and say most governments were banking on it, hoping that they were safe in the knowledge that they would have to commit to nothing and be able to blame the failure on China.

China has however handed this right back to them and the reaction in many capitals is one of undisguised panic as they contemplate the upcoming PR disaster!!


You hit the nail right on the head.

On another note why dont you contribute more to this forum as I find your opinions , make thought provoking reading, though I dont always agree on them
 
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HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: China's 180 Turn on Admissions

Currently, China produces over 1000 tonnes of greenhouse gas per one million dollars GDP, reduce it by 40%, and if it can reduce carbon intensity by another 40% from 2020 to 2030, then the carbon intensity of China will be the same as where EU and Japan are standing today.


If the currect rate of growth is maintained, Chinese economy will doube in size in the next 10 years, so it's like 20% rise in total emission.
Why does China need to reduce its emission levels to EU and Japan rates? China has a far larger population which multiplies every factor, while the EU and Japan have a smaller one, so if China is reducing their emissions, EU and Japan must also. China will always be a big emisions emitter cause of the population. But saying that China must reduce it to EU and Japan level, sounds like that EU and Japan don't need to reduce it further, and that China must match theirs which is wrong in theory. Look at Australia small popluation but extremely high emission emitter, which is way more severe then China, if you multiple the emissions footing, China is much smaller then Australia and America.
 
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