China and the US resume military contacts
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
raider1001
New Member
Man I hate those back and forth tug of war, a lot of fuss, wasted time and mostly for show...there ought to be some framework that is free from diplomatic/political interference.
solarz
Brigadier
The military, free of political (i.e. civilian) interference? I don't think that's a good idea.
For long term military ties, the US should at least stop sending spy planes and ships near China's waters.
That sends a negative message, and they are just asking for raising tensions and the eventual breaking of ties again.
The breaking of military contact isn't new, but now that China can break them and send a message, then maybe the US will stop selling arms to Taiwan. It's quite simple really; China just wants the US to back off a little and give them some space to operate. You can't have normal military ties when one is holding a gun at his side and spying from your front yard.
The best show of good faith would be to stop, or limit spy missions along Chinese waters and build it up from there. If the US military could make an announcement along those lines and stick to it then I'm confident the relationship will become stronger.
That sends a negative message, and they are just asking for raising tensions and the eventual breaking of ties again.
The breaking of military contact isn't new, but now that China can break them and send a message, then maybe the US will stop selling arms to Taiwan. It's quite simple really; China just wants the US to back off a little and give them some space to operate. You can't have normal military ties when one is holding a gun at his side and spying from your front yard.
The best show of good faith would be to stop, or limit spy missions along Chinese waters and build it up from there. If the US military could make an announcement along those lines and stick to it then I'm confident the relationship will become stronger.
the reverse is also true, think about it the same could be ask of china to give up Taiwan, and to be more transparent about her military. it is a finger pointing match
Curious George
New Member
Why should China give up Taiwan? Did the US give up on the Southern states who broke away from it to form the Confederate States of America? If Texas decided to go its own way, will the US "give up" Texas?
No requesting the US to cease spy missions is not the same as asking China to give up Taiwan (I won't go into the history and politics of it), though asking China to become more transparent with its military is a good comparison.
The fact is that militarily, the US holds all the advantages, in sheer power and politics as well. The US undertakes spy missions so in the event of a conflict, they will be able to easily win (ELINT, SIGINT etc) -- why should China co operate with a country which is effectively poking around for weaknesses and subverting their power?
Really I'm saying that the best way for improving military relations is if the US stops wanting to subvert (and subsequently weaken) the PRC. If they can accept that China's here to stay... well that will change their overall policy, and actions and therefore relations will warm too.
If not, then I predict another break off in military exchanges will occur within a year.
(I'll avoid too much talk of taiwan or politics here -- I don't want this thread to get shut down, and I do feel Sino-US military relations is a subject validating extensive discussion)
raider1001
New Member
Asking US to stop spying is like asking China to give up Taiwan, till hell freezes over. US must spy on China to make sure that it's in control of the Pacific, while China must control Taiwan to fulfill its dreams. Instead of asking both countries to show good faith by gave up impossible grounds, maybe the best solution is to publicly accept the fact that there are conflicts of core interests in the region, and it would be best to adapt the mentality of agree to disagree. Instead of accusing others of ill will and hoping the other will yield, I believe a formalized dispute resolution mechanism between the two countries can achieve more in the long run. I mean, since China and America has to butt heads every once in a while, it's better for both to fight in a controlled environment without disrupting regular business than in a thermonuclear war.
As for what kind of military cooperation US can do with China, I can think of nothing better than a joint naval exercise involving a US carrier battle group. On one hand, the engagement with China will be a gesture of friendship. On the other hand, the full might of the US navy on regular display can serve as a powerful deterrent to the hawks in the Chinese leadership.
As for what kind of military cooperation US can do with China, I can think of nothing better than a joint naval exercise involving a US carrier battle group. On one hand, the engagement with China will be a gesture of friendship. On the other hand, the full might of the US navy on regular display can serve as a powerful deterrent to the hawks in the Chinese leadership.
It's hardly impossible for the US to yield a few of the many, many advantages they have over China -- just give them some breathing space.
Eventually one country will have to give away something as an act of good faith or else they will keep butting heads and China will keep breaking off military contacts. Right now the US has a lot more to give.
(Just look at the recent talk of the ASBM, they were all fearful of how it would prohibit them to operate within 1500km of China's shores -- they were basically scared that they couldn't use their planes to bomb targets at will. How does that make sense??)
A dispute resolution mechanism would only be a half-fix to the problem, which is that China is here, and the US seems intent on limiting its reach. This is not a simple matter of regional security or whatever, it's about ensuring American primacy. A framework and code of conduct should be set in place however, for a clear line of communication under all scenarios.
If the US is unwilling to relinquish anything, then I actually support China's breaking of military contact, as that is the only subtle, non-drastic card they can lay onto the table to show discontent at the unacceptable incursions near Chinese waters and air space.
Obviously neither country will yield though, as you said when hell freezes over -- so I'm placing a bet that relationships'll break within... 14 months. Takers?
(I'd like to see the US start inviting PLAN ships to regional exercises with Aus, Japan, SK, and the south east asian community in general. That would be a good show of faith as well)