Canada orders replacement for its Leopard tanks

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Canadian Forces to refresh aging fleet of tanks
Last Updated: Thursday, April 12, 2007 | 6:21 AM ET
CBC News

The Canadian Forces will refresh its fleet of aging tanks with newer Leopard 2 tanks purchased from NATO allies, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor said Thursday.

As many as 100 of the more modern machines will be purchased second-hand from the Netherlands.

“This government will not hesitate to provide the Canadian Forces whatever equipment it requires to carry out the difficult tasks we ask them to perform," he said.

In the short term, the Canadian military will lease 20 combat-ready Leopard 2A6Ms from Germany to be deployed in Afghanistan by the next rotation this summer, O'Connor said.

"They are state-of-the-art," he said of the German tanks, which have stronger armour, go twice as fast and provide superior close-fire capabilities to the tanks they are replacing.

The tanks are from a newer generation than the 30-year-old Leopard C2s currently being used by the Canadians in Afghanistan and will offer increased protection against roadside bombs and mines, O'Connor said.
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The announcement comes in a week in which eight Canadian soldiers have died in bomb attacks.

"They are willing use any means … to harm our soldiers," O'Connor said of Taliban insurgents NATO forces are fighting in the embattled country.
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O'Connor joined Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier at a NATO meeting in Quebec City Thursday to announce the plans to update Canada's battered armoured corps.

The 100 surplus tanks, which have been sealed in heated buildings for 10 years, will begin to arrive from the Netherlands in the fall for refitting, O'Connor said.

The announcement will likely be welcome news to soldiers who have had to endure searing heat driving their current Leopard C2s in the Afghan desert during the summer months.

Heat-related health risks have threatened before to cause the tanks to be pulled from service. O'Connor said the newer tanks will be equipped with a cooling system for the crews before they reach Afghan soil.
Reverses Liberal decision to scrap tanks

Although head of the army Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie has praised Canada's C2s for doing valuable work, he has said they were reaching the end of the line and need to be retired soon.

Canada currently has 17 Leopard C2 tanks in Afghanistan. By updating its fleet, the military has reversed the former Liberal government's decision to do away with the tanks altogether.

The Liberals announced in 2003 that they would scrap the tanks and spend $600 million to replace them with the Mobile Gun System, an eight-wheeled light armoured vehicle with a cannon mounted on top.

The tanks were originally developed in Germany in the 1960s. Canada bought 127 Leopard tanks in 1978-79 and upgraded them. According to the Department of National Defence, the Forces have 114 of the tanks, and they can remain in service until 2010.
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Breakdown of the order:

  • Canada will BORROW, not lease 20 Leopard 2 A6M tanks from Germany to be sent directly to Afghanistan.
  • A total of 100 used Leos from the Netherlands, for delivery sometime this fall. These tanks have apparently been properly stored and maintained to keep them in top shape.
  • Of those 100 tanks, 40 will be 2A4's for two training squadrons in Canada (one in Gagetown, one in Wainwright), 40 will be two squadrons of 2A6's that after some Canadianization and upgrades (especially to the armour) will be deployable anywhere we need them, and 20 will be specialist tanks (bridge-layers, ARV's, dozers, etc).
  • The money to pay for this purchase (including an initial purchase of spare parts) comes from the cancellation of the Mobile Gun System project - $650 million bucks already allocated.
 
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I don't understand why Canada spends so little of its GDP on defence, especially considering the economy is doing quite well. It's barely over 1% of GDP - even countries like Belgium spend more in comparison!
 
tphuang

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FuManChu said:
I don't understand why Canada spends so little of its GDP on defence, especially considering the economy is doing quite well. It's barely over 1% of GDP - even countries like Belgium spend more in comparison!
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why should we spend more? We have other things that we need. Back in the Liberal days, having a budget surplus and paying off debt was a far more important task. But then again, with the new conservative government in power, defence seems to be more of a priority.
 
szbd

szbd

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FuManChu said:
I don't understand why Canada spends so little of its GDP on defence, especially considering the economy is doing quite well. It's barely over 1% of GDP - even countries like Belgium spend more in comparison!
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Why they need to spend on defence? If they don't want to interfere outside events, then they even do not need an armed force.
 
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Scratch

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szbd said:
Why they need to spend on defence? If they don't want to interfere outside events, then they even do not need an armed force.
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Then why does any country in the world need a military since everyone pretends only to defend oneselfe's legal interstes...

Anyway, nice to see Leo2s in another countries service. Having "outclassed" the Stryker gun system as the C2 replacement.
Besides, a sign that heavy tank forces still have a place in the modern kind of warfare.
 
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Skorzeny

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Well Canada is in a different position than most countries. The outside threats are rather few :D They do need an armed force to fulfill their NATO obligations, but thats about it. A high defence spending seems out of place
 
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FuManChu said:
I don't understand why Canada spends so little of its GDP on defence, especially considering the economy is doing quite well. It's barely over 1% of GDP - even countries like Belgium spend more in comparison!
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Canada isn't sandwiched between France and Germany. :rofl:

Heck if I were sandwiched between France and Germany, I'd spend a lot on defense too. But in the post cold-war environment, the Canadians only need to maintain its alliance obligations.
 
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szbd said:
Why they need to spend on defence? If they don't want to interfere outside events, then they even do not need an armed force.
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Then why does China need a fast-growing armed force? We always hear that China's rise is peaceful - is it going to interfere in outside events? :p

tphuang said:
why should we spend more? We have other things that we need.
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EVERYONE has "other things" they need. But the richer countries of the world have a responsibility to provide minimum defence spending so they can contribute to global security. There seems to be an expectation amongst a lot of states that someone else will take on that burden. Canada has helped out a lot in Afghanistan, but there's no reason it can't spend a little more on defence.

Or is the US expected to do that? There seems to be a constant bounce in global opinion that the US either needs to "stop interfering in the affairs of other countries" or "stop sitting on its hands because it has ties with that region/whatever and stop the killing". What happens if the US gives two fingers to the world and tells it to sort itself out? It's all very well sending a few blue-hats to some poor African state, but could the UN fight a major conflict without the US? I don't know that it could, given the current reluctance of many countries to contribute to dangerous peacekeeping.

If the world wants to be able to conduct "global security" without the need for the US, it needs to be willing to spend more and put its people in the firing line more often. Canada has done well on the second point - as I said, I don't see why it cannot spend a little more.
 
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ahho

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with the current way we spend and the debt that we have, i don't think the government are reluctant to spend anymore without costing their popularity. At the current point, people in canada are not really happy with the tax that they have to pay and increasing tax would just kill the party that are in office right now.

There are a lot of ineeficiencies at spending right now, and if they are able that, then i think we could spend a little more.
 
tphuang

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FuManChu said:
Then why does China need a fast-growing armed force? We always hear that China's rise is peaceful - is it going to interfere in outside events? :p
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Fu, if you bring China into this conversation again when this has absolutely nothing to do with China, I'm going to delete it. I don't need another flaming thread.
EVERYONE has "other things" they need. But the richer countries of the world have a responsibility to provide minimum defence spending so they can contribute to global security. There seems to be an expectation amongst a lot of states that someone else will take on that burden. Canada has helped out a lot in Afghanistan, but there's no reason it can't spend a little more on defence.

Or is the US expected to do that? There seems to be a constant bounce in global opinion that the US either needs to "stop interfering in the affairs of other countries" or "stop sitting on its hands because it has ties with that region/whatever and stop the killing". What happens if the US gives two fingers to the world and tells it to sort itself out? It's all very well sending a few blue-hats to some poor African state, but could the UN fight a major conflict without the US? I don't know that it could, given the current reluctance of many countries to contribute to dangerous peacekeeping.

If the world wants to be able to conduct "global security" without the need for the US, it needs to be willing to spend more and put its people in the firing line more often. Canada has done well on the second point - as I said, I don't see why it cannot spend a little more.
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We've helped a lot on this GWOT and Nato missions. If our government + generals decide a certain amount is enough to do the tasks they need to do, then it is enough. And we've done a great job in all of these different missions. If you don't understand Canadian politics or how Canadians think, then you lecture us on it.
 
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