African matters

D

delft

Brigadier
I found this article about the role of the US and China in the Sudan in Asia Times on line:
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As it is more about economic and political matters then directly military I have chosen to open this thread here. I am not well able to judge the value of this article, but the complexities of the developments in Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Kenya and Ethiopia deserve a thread of their own .
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Thanks for the interesting article delft. I like how the author puts the final paragraph in the usual anti-China rhetoric:

"As China emerges as a world power with more obligations and greater scrutiny, its record on human rights and democracy may become obstacles to its ambitions. China's policies towards Tibetans, Uyghurs, and other domestic groups and its support for North Korea, Myanmar, a host of African dictatorships, and Pakistani generals will become more salient in world affairs and become part of the calculus in future economic and geopolitical negotiations. The Sudanese conflict may be an important test."

He forgot to mention how over the years the people in Angola, Liberia, and Sierra Leon suffer from western companies exploitation (whether directly or indirectly) for diamonds or better known as "blood diamonds". It's not just oil, there are other sources as well, like gold in South Africa. All those human rights violations are enough to fill the library of Congress (ok I'm exaggerating a little bit, but you get the picture).
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
Great, a thread on Sino-African ties. Most of the accusations of China's 'exploitations' of Africa are politically motivated as can be seen with the U-turn of the new Zambian president compared to his behavior while he was in the opposition.

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Zambia president does China U-turn
2011-10-29 20:33
Lusaka - Zambia's President Michael Sata on Saturday said he would welcome Chinese investors, promising to strengthen relations with Beijing, in U-turn on his pre-election anti-China stance

"When we were campaigning people were complaining about the Chinese and I promised that I will sort the Chinese out," said Sata who hosted a luncheon for Beijing investors at the State House.

"They are also going to sort me out and so we are going to use them to develop," he said.

Sata, who was elected in September is known for his tough stand against the influx of Chinese investment into the country, particularly in the mining sector, which he says does not benefit locals.

Zambians working for Chinese-run mines often protest about poor labour conditions and pay.

In 2010, two Chinese mine managers were charged with attempted murder for shooting at 11 Zambian workers protesting over poor pay and work conditions.

The case strained relations between the locals and the Chinese, and charges were later dropped.

The newly elected leader said he would be sending the country's founding president Kenneth Kaunda to China to renew relations between the two nations.

"We will be in a few days be sending president Kaunda to China to renew our acquaintance and say thank you to China for the things they have done," Sata said.

China has invested an estimated $6.1bn in the southern African nation since 2007, equivalent to more than one third of gross domestic product in 2010.

- AFP
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Mr Sata's "turn around" is merely a politician facing reality. However there is enough evidence, anecdotal or otherwise to suggest that his allegations against China aren't without some substance. His/Zambia's predicament is not unusual for many developing countries who have become too reliant on a single country from the West or the East to do the heavy lifting.
 
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D

delft

Brigadier
A report that Ethiopia has again invaded Somalia:
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Ethiopian troops 'cross border into Somalia'
By Will Ross
East Africa correspondent


Ethiopian troops have crossed the border into Somalia in significant numbers, eyewitnesses say.

They say they saw at least 20 vehicles carrying Ethiopian troops.

A few hundred soldiers were seen in Gurel town in Galgudud region and there were other sightings around Beledweyne.

Ethiopian authorities have denied the incursion. Their soldiers have not been in Somalia in large numbers since 2009 when they withdrew after a controversial three-year presence.

These reports come as Kenyan troops continue their efforts to defeat fighters of the Islamist group al-Shabab in the south of Somalia.

History of interventions
If confirmed, this appears to be the largest Ethiopian deployment since the 2009 withdrawal which followed an invasion that was very unpopular with ordinary Somalis.

If Ethiopian soldiers were to deploy deep inside Somalia, this would increase the pressure on al-Shabab.

Further south, the Kenyan army is working with Somali militias in what appears to be an effort to push al-Shabab away from the border and possibly out of the lucrative port of Kismayo.

One MP from central Somalia said he could not confirm exactly where the Ethiopian troops had reached or in what number. But he said their presence was vital in order to help defeat al-Shabab.

History shows that military intervention in Somalia is hugely unpopular and can act as a catalyst to unite Somali groups that had been enemies.

Although al-Shabab's strict version of Islamic law is unpopular with most people, that does not mean Somalis will welcome Kenyan and Ethiopian soldiers. This could hamper their effort to defeat the militants.

Aid agencies have warned that an escalation in fighting could further jeopardise the efforts to get food to victims of the drought and famine.

On Friday the UN said the humanitarian effort had improved the situation but we are told almost a quarter of a million Somalis still face imminent starvation.
Click to expand...
After the recent invasion by Kenya, said at the time to be a reaction to the abduction of two people in Kenya but soon after reported to have been prepared for for several months, this is the second neighbor to send troops into Somalia. A likely outcome is an increase in recruits for al-Shabab. But the US seems to be sponsoring these invasions and to send over unmanned aircraft to attack inside Somalia.
The lucrative port of Kismayo serves to import goods into southern Somalia. It is not a base for pirates. They operate from ports to the north of Mogadishu.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Don't believe the propaganda. A Somali government was developing based on Islamic courts a few years ago. Because of US paranoia about the Muslim aspect Ethiopia was encouraged to intervene. The courts were destroyed but the Somalis are as nationalistic as ever and they set up al-Shabab in their place. As the US is still the enemy that interferes with unmanned and perhaps sometimes manned bombing aircraft and probably with Special Forces it is natural that Al Queda will offer help and that that help is accepted. But the purpose of Al Queda, to drive the US out of Muslim countries, is a different one from that of al-Shabab, to drive foreigners out of Somalia and to end the lawlessness in Somalia, such as piracy.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
delft said:
Don't believe the propaganda. A Somali government was developing based on Islamic courts a few years ago. Because of US paranoia about the Muslim aspect Ethiopia was encouraged to intervene. The courts were destroyed but the Somalis are as nationalistic as ever and they set up al-Shabab in their place. As the US is still the enemy that interferes with unmanned and perhaps sometimes manned bombing aircraft and probably with Special Forces it is natural that Al Queda will offer help and that that help is accepted. But the purpose of Al Queda, to drive the US out of Muslim countries, is a different one from that of al-Shabab, to drive foreigners out of Somalia and to end the lawlessness in Somalia, such as piracy.
Click to expand...

Perhaps from that perspective I can understand to a point, BUT it's Al Queda that slams airplanes into our buildings killing people of ALL kinds of backgrounds (even Muslims). If Al Shabab needed help why didn't they go to the UN or AU for help? I'm sure even the Arab League would've provide legal assistance for Somalia.
 
R

Red___Sword

Junior Member
i.e. said:
Any mention of China setting up shop in Somaliland?
Click to expand...

The national stadium which was the foward base and rally point of the famous "Black Hawk Down", was built by Chinese engineering / construction team, funded by China, back when Somalia was a sovereignty nation.



Equation said:
Perhaps from that perspective I can understand to a point, BUT it's Al Queda that slams airplanes into our buildings killing people of ALL kinds of backgrounds (even Muslims). If Al Shabab needed help why didn't they go to the UN or AU for help? I'm sure even the Arab League would've provide legal assistance for Somalia.
Click to expand...

I guess UN and AU only can provide (that much of) help to internationally recognized sovereignty nation, Somalia in many aspect didn't count as one, it dose not have an official government that recognized domestically and internationally yet.

The better-not-mention-BS between Arab League and African black people (whom are not muslims)?... There is a saying in Chinese 越帮越忙, means "help" sometimes can be more harmful than useful. Arab League's assistance to Somalia would be one.

Sudan seperated into two parts exactly because of that "domestic differences".
 
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