J-10 Thread IV

[Air Force Brat]

I think both the Typhoon and Rafale have enough hard points for dozen plus AAMs, without dual racks, although I must admit I cannot recall seeing such loads being flown.

I was thinking mostly of the Eurocanards, F18E and F15S etc, more recent planes when I said dozen plus missiles.

Your point about Cold War designs is right on the money, and is precisely in line with point I was making in that during the Cold War, when western air forces were expecting to face a peer opponent, they didn’t see the value in stuffing planes with as many missiles as physically possible either. Because in such a situation, few of the planes involved are expected to survive long enough in combat to be able to use so many missiles, so hanging so many would prove to just be a waste in the majority of cases.

It is only after the Cold War, when air dominance is effectively a forgone conclusions, that huge warloads became popular as western air forces shifted their focus to sortie efficiency.

You're both of course correct here, and if you overload your aircraft with ordinance, you may well lose on the first round.... the rush to ordinance planes and overloaded fighters seems quite ill advised personally..

The ability of the F-35 to sensor fuse with other aircraft, and fire ordinance off the closest platform will likely change the way we fight?? I'm just not sure how that will all work in practice??? imagine flying along and your aircraft starts launching weapons commanded from another aircraft?? so I wonder how that will all work...

so in real life, 8-12 AAM may well be overkill, I see Boeing is attempting to sell an F-15 with 24 AAM?? so who really knows how this will all play out, but under normal conditions 4 BVR and 2 WVR would seem to be an effective load-out, 6 BVR and 2WVR should also be quite sufficient for larger aircraft with greater payload, and less performance compromises, such as J-20, Su-57, F-35, or F-22..

Internal carriage is an outstanding performance enhancer, eliminating all that drag and airflow disturbance will allow the pilot to fly his aircraft to the limits, hanging excess ordinance on pylons will have performance penalties...

 

[Deino]

If I'm not mistaken then this is the first time a J-10C carries a KD-88 AGM ... at least for the first time confirmed. (via LKJ86/PDF)

View attachment 48026

However ... for a true KD-88 it lacks the engine's air intake

... but what else could it be? Maybe a training round without the intake only to simulate the weight?

 

[Hyperwarp]

However ... for a true KD-88 it lacks the engine's air intake

... but what else could it be? Maybe a training round without the intake only to simulate the weight?

[*ATTACH=full]48028[/ATTACH]

Maybe they are testing seeker. I think the Kh-29 (or was it Kh-59) has a similar finless version.

EDIT:

KAB-500Kr-U has a training version

 

[Totoro]

It would be beneficial if the communication pod for kd88 could be used backwards, as the launching plane is fleeing away after firing the missile. And still have the pilot to monitor the missiles approach to Target and select the final object to be hit.

Also, since it seems plaaf is still not confident in being able to bomb the enemy without stand off weapons, plaaf would be very much well served by using some winged bombs with 2in1 satellite and IIR guidance.

Basically sdb2, though perhaps with less emphasis against moving targets. So perhaps more in vein of JSOW-c. Perhaps a whole family, with somewhat smaller 250 kg class bomb so 2-3 could be carried on a single j10 underwing pylon.

 

[Pampa]

A true standoff attacker !!!

Something like this...
Popeye/AGM-142 Have Nap

 

[defenceman]

In Russia for Aviadarts 2018 exercise

View attachment 48015 View attachment 48016 View attachment 48017 View attachment 48018

Hi my friend any specific reason j10b or c not been to Russia for Aviadarts exercise
Thank you

 

[ougoah]

Hi my friend any specific reason j10b or c not been to Russia for Aviadarts exercise
Thank you

That's just how China does these things. They also sent older models to Thailand and Pakistan for exercises and training with foreign militaries. They almost never send the newer/newest stuff. Many possible reasons for this e.g. do not want to reveal any information even to allies or neutral countries for fear of them spreading it as rumours or directly selling/giving that information to unfriendly powers. They may also wish to keep a level playing field for example they won't send J-10C for exerrcises because of the nature of those exercises. Maybe the upgraded products feature things that are useless to the purpose of the exercise so zero point in sending them. We should also remember that any worthwhile lesson learned by the human operators of the older products, can still be applied across the board. Any shortcomings can be addressed for newer models too, if they still exist.

 

[Iron Man]

You're both of course correct here, and if you overload your aircraft with ordinance, you may well lose on the first round.... the rush to ordinance planes and overloaded fighters seems quite ill advised personally..

The ability of the F-35 to sensor fuse with other aircraft, and fire ordinance off the closest platform will likely change the way we fight?? I'm just not sure how that will all work in practice??? imagine flying along and your aircraft starts launching weapons commanded from another aircraft?? so I wonder how that will all work...

so in real life, 8-12 AAM may well be overkill, I see Boeing is attempting to sell an F-15 with 24 AAM?? so who really knows how this will all play out, but under normal conditions 4 BVR and 2 WVR would seem to be an effective load-out, 6 BVR and 2WVR should also be quite sufficient for larger aircraft with greater payload, and less performance compromises, such as J-20, Su-57, F-35, or F-22..

Internal carriage is an outstanding performance enhancer, eliminating all that drag and airflow disturbance will allow the pilot to fly his aircraft to the limits, hanging excess ordinance on pylons will have performance penalties...

I think there is definitely a good use for such large warloads, namely when defending against large ASCM or LACM saturation attacks, in which case the more missiles you have the more ASCMs that can be intercepted at long range prior to any ships or SAM batteries needing to employ their air defense missiles., both of which are limited by the horizon and at longer OTH ranges by the maximum targeting capacity of overhead AEW&C aircraft.

 

[araberuni]

That's just how China does these things. They also sent older models to Thailand and Pakistan for exercises and training with foreign militaries. They almost never send the newer/newest stuff. Many possible reasons for this e.g. do not want to reveal any information even to allies or neutral countries for fear of them spreading it as rumours or directly selling/giving that information to unfriendly powers. They may also wish to keep a level playing field for example they won't send J-10C for exerrcises because of the nature of those exercises. Maybe the upgraded products feature things that are useless to the purpose of the exercise so zero point in sending them. We should also remember that any worthwhile lesson learned by the human operators of the older products, can still be applied across the board. Any shortcomings can be addressed for newer models too, if they still exist.

It's very strange! On the contrary, there are potential sales opportunities for those birds i.e. J-10C. What's the point to hide Chinese achievement when we know you have it.

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[ougoah]

J-10C is not for sale. I haven't seen any of the DSI J-10s officially promoted for sale (maybe laws have been passed for their sale but that's it). PLAAF orders cannot be met by current production rates as they are. JF-17 is happily for sale and hopefully J-31 will be as well when it becomes ready.