Trade War with China

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Yesterday at 7:43 PM
"retweeting"
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For 10 months, China has been paying Tariffs to the USA of 25% on 50 Billion Dollars of High Tech, and 10% on 200 Billion Dollars of other goods. These payments are partially responsible for our great economic results. The 10% will go up to 25% on Friday. 325 Billions Dollars....

....of additional goods sent to us by China remain untaxed, but will be shortly, at a rate of 25%. The Tariffs paid to the USA have had little impact on product cost, mostly borne by China. The Trade Deal with China continues, but too slowly, as they attempt to renegotiate. No!
and didn't see anything in Xinhua in English, People's Daily yet, but now read
Asia stocks plummet after Trump renews tariff threat on China
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and
Trump threatens to raise tariffs on $200B worth of Chinese goods to 25 percent
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
China has seen far worse days. It must not bow a bit. If it does bow a bit, it must ensure that in the long run and grand scheme of things, that bow was only there to guarantee even more power and prestige to itself. This trade war that imposes 25% tariff on 350 billion goods of china is going to extract 0.25*350*21/25 = 75 billion dollars from Chinese state every year ( as claimed by trump office). 75 billion dollars to maintain it's sovereignty intact and not get bullied/blackmailed? That's insignificant. I'll just assume that it was another earthquake/typhoon every year.
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
China has seen far worse days. It must not bow a bit. If it does bow a bit, it must ensure that in the long run and grand scheme of things, that bow was only there to guarantee even more power and prestige to itself. This trade war that imposes 25% tariff on 350 billion goods of china is going to extract 0.25*350*21/25 = 75 billion dollars from Chinese state every year ( as claimed by trump office). 75 billion dollars to maintain it's sovereignty intact and not get bullied/blackmailed? That's insignificant. I'll just assume that it was another earthquake/typhoon every year.

That's not how tariffs work. It's going to extract 75 billion dollars from the US consumer and companies every year. Something they're ill equipped to deal with, neither do they have any alternatives to China, as shown by trade surplus going up in 2018 and Q1 2019.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Yeah,i know. Just calculating the "upfront" costs that China would'v to bear as per the Trump office.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
good analysis by goldman
US-China trade deal stuck on enforcement impasse
Trump threatens to blow up talks, citing ‘great economic results’ of trade war, but data show weakness in the US economy

ByDAVID P. GOLDMAN
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Trade negotiations between the US and China hit an impasse last week over American demands for a one-sided tariff mechanism, according to a Chinese government source familiar with the situation. President Trump announced in a surprise tweet Sunday that additional tariffs on Chinese exports to the US would go into effect last week. Global equity markets are expected to open sharply lower on Monday in response.

US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer has insisted that some of the US tariffs on $250 billion of Chinese goods will remain in place while demanding that China rescind all of its retaliatory tariffs, according to several media reports last week. In addition, the US side has proposed an “enforcement mechanism” for future infractions that would allow the United States to impose punitive tariffs but forbid China from doing so.

China has refused to accept the American demands, a Chinese government official told Asia Times. “One for you and zero for me isn’t the basis for an agreement,” the official said. In the worst case, the official added, China would have to “shrug its shoulders” and walk away from the negotiations.

The US president tweeted:

“For 10 months, China has been paying Tariffs to the USA of 25% on 50 Billion Dollars of High Tech, and 10% on 200 Billion Dollars of other goods. These payments are partially responsible for our great economic results. The 10% will go up to 25% on Friday. $325 billion of additional goods sent to the US by China remain untaxed, but will be shortly, at a rate of 25%. The Tariffs paid to the USA have had little impact on product cost, mostly borne by China. The Trade Deal with China continues, but too slowly, as they attempt to renegotiate. No!”

President Trump’s reference to “great economic results” suggests that he is overestimating US economic strength, as I reported in an
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. The US Commerce Department last month reported 1st-quarter GDP growth at an annualized 3.2% rate, but the headline number was inflated by temporary factors including net exports, inventory buildup and a surge in state and local spending.

Excluding temporary items, GDP growth was only 1.3%. Investment in plant and equipment showed zero growth, and consumer spending contributed just 1.2% to GDP growth, the lowest in three years.

On Friday, the Labor Department reported that the US added 263,000 jobs in April, far above the consensus estimate. It also reported a drop in the unemployment rate, due to an unexpected shrinkage of the size of the US labor force. More Americans are working at establishments surveyed by the Labor Department, but they are working on average fewer hours per week. The total number of hours worked (the number of employed workers multiplied by average weekly hours) is actually falling.

Some closely-followed economic surveys, for example, the National Association of Purchasing Managers’ PMI (Purchasing Manager Index) have shown marked softening during the past several months. The PMI tells exactly the same story as the labor market, once hours worked are included in the calculation. The US economy is slowing.

Payrolls-grow-but-hours-worked-fall.png


The year-on-year change in total hours worked (weekly hours X payroll employment) has slowed from a 2.4% rate of increase in July 2018 to only 1.4% as of April. As the chart below indicates, the slowdown in total hours worked tracks the decline in the Purchasing Managers’ Index.
YOY-change-in-total-hours-vs-NAPM-PMI.png



This is far from a recession warning, to be sure. But weakness in the US economy is due in part to lower investment in buildings and machines, and uncertainty over the status of global supply chains due to the US-China tariff war is a major cause of the investment dearth.

I continue to believe that US economic growth will come in at under 2% during 2019, far less than the Trump Administration expects and slightly below the lower band of the Federal Reserve’s estimate of 1.9%-2.2% growth.

That also explains why bond yields remain so low and the yield curve remains so flat in the face of big headline growth numbers. The bond market sees through the statistical illusion to the slowing of the underlying economy.

Trump’s threat of new tariffs will give markets a nasty shock on Monday. Investors do not know whether the president’s tariff surprise represents a last-minute negotiating tactic intended to hasten the conclusion of a trade deal or an unexpected escalation. But there is a considerable risk that Trump has vastly overestimated the strength of his position, and that a worsening of the tariff war will lead to more economic weakness and falling asset prices.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Yeah,i know. Just calculating the "upfront" costs that China would'v to bear as per the Trump office.

I’m pretty sure the upfront costs are not calculable. Maybe SOEs can be helped. Small businesses in the US and China get hurt. I had to patch up my AC instead of replacing it because it was costing 25% more this yesr.
He ain’t got much time before he needs to show some results for this trade war. Despite all the cheerleading by the anti-China crowd, real power and influence lie in the hands of businessmen, not day to day laborers. He either causes a recession in his term and lose or initiate one under a democrat. Who knows. China will keep growing because the engine will keep running until its caught up to the 1st world.
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's not how tariffs work. It's going to extract 75 billion dollars from the US consumer and companies every year. Something they're ill equipped to deal with, neither do they have any alternatives to China, as shown by trade surplus going up in 2018 and Q1 2019.

What makes you so confident to claim it is the US side that takes the full burden of the tariffs? Can you back that up?

Looking back across 3 quarters since the tariffs came in to place, neither economy seems to have been phased at all. Although, the Chinese economy showed stress in Q4 2018. Not saying it was related to tariffs.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The buyer pays the tariff not the seller. Since over 60% of exports from China to the US are foreign corporations outsourcing to China shipping their products to the US to be sold to consumers, the burden of tariffs is not on China. When Japanese export their cars to Japanese car dealers in the US, the Japanese will feel the tariff. But since US manufacturers outsource to China to have their products made, it's the US corporation that pays the tariff to ship their product back home to sell to consumers. China only gets paid for the slave labor to make a product for a foreigners. If China only gets $10 dollars for every iPhone made and Trump slaps a 25% tariff on a $1000 iPhone, that's $250. China doesn't pay $250 for an iPhone where their end only makes $10. Apple pays it or else China just got a load of iPhones for $10 each that they can sell.
 
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