Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

[A Bar Brother]

Based on what we do know, US AESA technology is advanced to that of France.

That's not necessarily true. While we don't know enough to say for sure, just because the US made more AESAs at an earlier date doesn't mean it is more advanced.

The Russians have been making ESA for fighters for 30 years, and the French beat them in quality with the RBE-2.

Larger radars of the same technology type are more powerful and capable.

We don't know if the radars are of the same technology type. Even that minute difference in one or two watts for each module changes a lot of things. Cooling also matters a lot, especially for GaAs. So it can go either way, subject to us receiving more information.

It is easy for Raytheon to say their radar is the most advanced when they have zero information on the radar from Thales and viceversa. And Spectra helps in enhancing the capability of the radar.

My goodness, do you simply not read your own sources first to check if they contradict your statemets.

These are qualities of AESA systems.

That sort of EW encompasses active cancellation.

Not unless you have a jammer that is capable of using that information for active cancellation. The Spectra does have jammers (1-18GHz). If the F-35 does have this capability, it will only be in the X band (8-12GHz) since only the radar is fused to the other sensors of the aircraft. And while the F-35 is using its radar for jamming, communication etc, the system is underutilizing its primary function of being a radar. Dedicated jammers are better since they work in 360 degrees. 360 degree capability is important for active cancellation.

Um, the F-35 does sensor fusion of its IRST, DIRCM, RWR, and other sensors too.

But the F-35 does not have active jamming capability like Spectra. And the NGJ is not a sensor fused system. It is independent and is nowhere near being an equivalent to Spectra. Meaning, the NGJ does not receive information from the EODAS, IRST, radar, and other ELINT and SIGINT sensors for the same type of jamming that Spectra does.

 

[A Bar Brother]

You are talking about cheap and expendable fighters like Mig-21 (or Hunters, Su-7, Gnat etc ). They were designed to be easily produced in large quantities and the price was relatively low .

On the other hand, Rafale is expensive and production is time-consuming (like any other modern fighter) . As a system, Rafale is much more complex then Mig-21 and similar .

Back in the 1960s, the Mig-21 was an expensive aircraft as well. The production line was set up in 1964 and produced nearly 900 aircraft until 1985. This included replacements for combat losses and attrition losses.

The IAF is upgrading the Mirage-2000 because the infrastructure is already present and the aircraft has a lot of life left. If the production lines are active, the IAF will continue producing more MKIs. The IAF is currently authorized to hold 270 Su-30s. If the number dips below that, they will order replacements, as they did in 2012. Production lines are active for many years after the end of the serial production anyway. The T-72 line survived until 2006, that's around the same time the T-90 production line was setup. Meant for attrition/maintenance replacement at 20 tanks a year.

If India loses 50 or more Su-30 MKI or Rafale, nothing could replace them quickly , and I don't even want to talk about cost .

I did say quickly would mean 5 years. It takes 3 years to produce either aircraft. Cost isn't such an issue as far as the authorization for a specific number exists. The IAF can continue ordering more aircraft without bureaucratic delays until they reach that number.

 

[A Bar Brother]

According to Indian sources, Bars radar has bigger or equal max range then RBE-2AA . Size of antenna is very important . Text from certain Indian forum :

I know the guy you have quoted very well.

He would agree with me when I say the RBE-2AA is AESA while the Bars is PESA and hence less advanced compared to the RBE-2AA.

I definitely agree that size is important. But the T/R modules are even more so. And PESA versus AESA is incomparable. Otherwise there are other less advanced radars than the Bars with more range. You don't need the most advanced antennas for more range. Other qualities come into play with better antennas.

Bars uses TWTs, so you can increase the power to whatever you want. Bars uses 4.5 to 7 KW while Irbis-E uses 20 KW. Irbis-E delivers more power than what's present on the APG-77 (most likely) or the APG-81 (most definitely). If Irbis-E has more range than the APG-77, it doesn't mean it is more advanced.

 

[thunderchief]

He would agree with me when I say the RBE-2AA is AESA while the Bars is PESA and hence less advanced compared to the RBE-2AA.

AESA is not automatically more advanced then PESA, or let me rephrase myself , PESA could be more dangerous to your opponent then AESA . There are certain things AESA could do and PESA could not , mostly because AESA could emit at multiple frequencies at the same time , and PESA works on one or two (depends on number of TWTs ) .But working strictly in air-to-air mode , range and ECCM are more important . Rough comparison could be bolt-action sniper rifle against automatic rifle . Automatic rifle should be more advanced, yet at long ranges bolt-action sniper will be more dangerous .

In air combat, you won't be thinking about AESA, PESA or MS , you would want to detect your opponent as far as possible before he detects you .

 

[thunderchief]

Back in the 1960s, the Mig-21 was an expensive aircraft as well. The production line was set up in 1964 and produced nearly 900 aircraft until 1985. This included replacements for combat losses and attrition losses.

Well, Mig-21 was designed from the start to be expendable and relatively cheap, according to Soviet doctrine . Compared with F-4 (usual opponent from those years) it was crude, simple and even primitive , but it cost a fraction of F-4 price . Yet, even F-4 was produced in very large numbers , unachievable for fighters of today . In the future, most likely only most powerful nations would have few fighter squadrons of their own (6th gen) , rest would use drones and helicopters .

 

[aksha]

self delete

 

[Skywatcher]

That's not necessarily true. While we don't know enough to say for sure, just because the US made more AESAs at an earlier date doesn't mean it is more advanced.

Nor does it mean that it isn't. Try stopping it with the fallacies.

The Russians have been making ESA for fighters for 30 years, and the French beat them in quality with the RBE-2.

Those were PESA radars.

We don't know if the radars are of the same technology type. Even that minute difference in one or two watts for each module changes a lot of things. Cooling also matters a lot, especially for GaAs. So it can go either way, subject to us receiving more information.

It is easy for Raytheon to say their radar is the most advanced when they have zero information on the radar from Thales and viceversa. And Spectra helps in enhancing the capability of the radar.

Using Occam's Razor, the physics tells us that as a rule of thumb, the larger radar is more powerful. And since you admit it goes either way, that means the F-35 has the more powerful radar.

These are qualities of AESA systems.

"an AESA array that can do EW, coms, radar, SIGINT all at the same time", I take it that you concede it shows the F-35's has on board sensor fusion for EW missions,

Integration of EW sensors with the F-35's AN/APG 81 active electronically scanned array (AESA), communications and electro-optical distributed aperture systems puts offensive, defensive, coms and data-gathering sensors at the service of the pilot to process onboard and offboard data. The EW system employs a range of dedicated antennas and shares the AESA antenna for tasks such as electronic support measures or signals collection and analysis. The F-35's high-gain, electronically steered radar array provides jamming support under the control of the EW system. Because the AESA array provides very directional radio frequency (RF) output, the JSF could target a very small area and selectively jam it, which enhances survivability by reducing electronic emissions. - See more at:

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And that's without the NGJ.

Not unless you have a jammer that is capable of using that information for active cancellation. The Spectra does have jammers (1-18GHz). If the F-35 does have this capability, it will only be in the X band (8-12GHz) since only the radar is fused to the other sensors of the aircraft. And while the F-35 is using its radar for jamming, communication etc, the system is underutilizing its primary function of being a radar. Dedicated jammers are better since they work in 360 degrees. 360 degree capability is important for active cancellation.

The F-35 has its own jammers onboard, what on Earth are you babbling about? The NGJ covers one part of the spectrum, the F-35 has other jammers installed onto the aircraft itself to handle the other frequencies. Naturally, said jammers are networked into the F-35.

But the F-35 does not have active jamming capability like Spectra. And the NGJ is not a sensor fused system. It is independent and is nowhere near being an equivalent to Spectra. Meaning, the NGJ does not receive information from the EODAS, IRST, radar, and other ELINT and SIGINT sensors for the same type of jamming that Spectra does.

Of course the F-35 has active jamming (active jamming is using your own EM activities to disrupt and denial enemy usage of the EM spectrum), it's also using GaN modules, which have a 10X greater power output than the GaA modules that the previous generation Spectra uses.

 

[aksha]

Indian Navy to Purchase 16 US Multi-role Choppers For $1 mn

NEW DELHI: The Indian Navy has finally selected the US Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk for its shipboard multi-role helicopter (MRH) requirement. Sixteen helicopters will initially be bought for $1 billion.

Sikorsky's tender was opened December 4 on the Navy Day, soon after the navy chief, Admiral Robin Dhowan, said that the government was fast-tracking various programmes for the modernization of the armed forces, and that some of the naval projects would be cleared "very soon."

Indeed so, the opening of the commercial bid at the ministry of defence (MoD), where the files have been held up for one reason or another for three years, was a Navy Day gift to the force.

Admiral Dhowan, who hosted a big Navy Day reception, did not say anything on the ceremonial occasion but was visibly in smiles and high spirits. Only a day before,
on December 3, he had told this writer that it was "comforting" to the navy brass to know that long-pending requirements were now being procedurally cleared on fast-track.

In an interview with India Strategic (

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) before the Navy Day, the admiral indicated that the navy would likely exercise the option to buy the stipulated 16 helicopters along with an option for another eight. "To address critical shortages, the Indian Navy is progressing a case for acquisition of 16 MRH and I expect the commercial bids to be opened shortly. This project may be expanded
through an option clause to buy additional eight helicopters to meet any additional immediate requirements."

The navy is also buying 16 more Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) helicopters from state-run HAL, he disclosed.

The Sikorsky deal is estimated at around $1 billion-plus.

Sikorsky's Regional Executive for India and South Asia, Air Vice Marshal Arvind Jeet Singh Walia (retd), said that he was delighted at Sikorsky's selection, pointing out that he had been working for eight long years for the company's participation in Indian military programmes. "We look forward to fruitful negotiations now to conclude this requirement, and then move on for other projects."

The company has already offered to build helicopters in India under transfer of technology (TOT) subject to US export control laws.

The Seahawk is a naval variant of the US Army's Black Hawk UH 60 helicopter, which has a proven track record in US military ventures in different parts of the world, including Afghanistan.

The navy had floated a tender for 16 helicopters with an option for another eight in 2008. Besides the United Technologies Corporation Sikorsky helicopter, European NH Industries NH 90 was also shortlisted for technical trials, which both of them cleared. But before the commercial bids could be opened, allegations of corruption erupted in Italy over AgustaWestland's VVIP helicopter deal with India. As AgustaWestland is part of NHI, its commercial bid was not opened.

Italy's Finmeccanica has a controlling stake in the Anglo-Italian AgustaWestland, which in turn is a partner with Airbus Helicopters and Fokker Aerostructures in NHI. For the time being, the defence ministry is not dealing with any company related to AgustaWestland.

The Seahawk 70B can be used for both advanced anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare to neutralize underwater and over-water threats. One key requirement is for amphibious assault role - and the machines will be customized for that.

It will have potent radars and weapons from leading global majors, including Raytheon, Telephonics, BAE Systems, GE (two power plants), French Thales and six
other partners. The helicopters will replace the Indian Navy's quarter-century-old Westland Sea King Mk 42 B/C fleet.

What exactly is on board though in terms of capability will be decided in negotiations likely to commence within weeks.

Significantly, at the navy chief's reception, a very well-done short film on the Indian Navy was presented, and its script had ample emphasis on naval aviation in
protecting India's offshore maritime interests.

As for manufacturing helicopters in India in accordance with the Government's new 'Make in India' policy, Admiral Dhowan said: “Towards this end, we have begun the process of analyzing the capability and potential of the Indian aviation industry to make aviation assets in India through (industry bodies) Confederation of Indian Industries (CII), Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India (ASSOCHAM) and Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and
Industry (FICCI).

However as indigenous production could take some time to mature, it is "in the interim" that the navy is going in for acquiring helicopters from foreign vendors to "address (its) critical shortages”.

Air Vice Marshal Walia told India Strategic that as the number required is very small (16 + 8 (options), there cannot be any manufacturing India. But there is a 30
percent offsets clause, and Sikorsky will fully meet this obligation.

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[aksha]

source:times of india

 

[Jeff Head]

jeff you have got what you wanted guess which carrier it is.

Yes indeed, I saw this and have it up on my :

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​

at my

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Great news. I had heard to earlier, but it is now GREAT to see it comnfirmed.