To sum up all this discussion, imo it stands to reason that you don't put rookie pilots on a rookie carrier. So likely the first operational pilots from Fujian would be experienced, ie that had many hours both on CV-16/17 as well as land EMALS. Then of course they will gradually impart their experience onto newer pilots over time.
CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
The only rookie pilots might be those piloting J-35.
Unless somehow J-35 pilots were also former J-15 pilots. Maybe that's how PLA does it. It pulls current pilots to pilot newer introduced gears so like J-10 pilots being picked to pilot J-20.
Someone more familiar can shed some info.
lcloo
Major
The first batch of J35 pilots have to be the crème de la crème of the navy aviation pilots, probably they might even be ranked at flight instructors level. And they will likely be the ones in charge of type conversions of future J35 pilots.
The J-35 would be the most likely to have J-15 experience since both are fighters and the J-35 can operate off STOBAR as well.
The KJ-600 pilots would be the least likely but I think for the initial pilots even those would have J-15 experience. The reason is that the J-15 was the only aircraft that had trapped on a vessel. This will change in the future when the JL-10J (or maybe the JL-9G too) actually does an arrested recovery.
Right now, the only aircraft we know where rookies had landed on a carrier is the J-15.
Comparison with Nimitz-class and the Ford
As mack8 wrote, there would be no reason for new pilots for CV-18 to be freshly trained pilots without any prior experience aboard carriers.
If anything it should be the default expectation, given how cautious the PLAN are, that they would seek to have some (at minimum) moderately experienced pilots make up CV-18's initial fixed wing air complement for all the aircraft types they embark.
And given that the only aircraft type that pilots would have experience on carrier deck operations for CV-16/17 are J-15 and J-15T family aircraft, it would naturally follow that the J-35 and KJ-600 pilots would likely have had J-15/T experience as well.
At some point, once the training pipeline for new aircraft types and pilot community/cadres becomes more established, then J-35 and KJ-600 pilots would likely have their own training path rather than being initially J-15/T pilots.
I have a different take.
The current Naval fast jet population in PLANAF is rather limited. Liaoning and Shandong, CV-16/17, has a total fast jet pilot population of 60 to 80?
If Fujian, CV-18, airwing(s) requirements are stood up entirely of experienced carrier pilots, it will require stripping CV-16/17 airwings pilot count down to their bones. Effectively removing 2 operational, combat capable (however limited) carriers and setting PLAN carrier capabilities to zero for the near future until all airwings work up to at least IOC again from their cadre of new pilots.
It will stand to reason that an experienced cadre is formed from CV-16/17 to lead the new airwings on CV-18. Taking enough from CV-16/17 without disrupting their ability to maintain capabilities. As such, it will then require that a significant amount of pilots for CV-18 will be new aviators - which is still fine? By the time Fujian achieves full operational capabilities (3-5 years?), they won't be that green anymore.
Type conversion isn't straightforward or easy. Pilots do not and can not hop onto different platforms performing different roles just like that.
J-10 to J-20 isn't just qualifying to fly a different plane, it is also single engine to twin engine and probably different CONOPs and tactics to unlearn/relearn. Other than selected pilots transferred for promotion into other squadrons, I believe it really only happens when an entire squadron is stood down to type convert to a new airframe, which also means that operationally, that squadron is "in training" for the next few years until it achieves IOC/FOC in that new aircraft.
Pulling J-35 pilots entirely from a squadron of J-15s and using fresh pilots to then repopulate the J-15 squadron (not that you said that) means that you end up minus one (-1) operational squadron while you work up both J-35 and J-15 squadrons. Unless the J-15 squadron is being entirely type converted to J-35, which will be rather frivolous unless the J-15 squadron is approaching EOL for their airframes?
I suspect the number is multiple times that because:
- the total number of J-15/T family airframes is greater than that number already
- the ratio of pilots to airframes should be somewhat greater than 1:1
- if I were the PLAN I would have focused on training as many eligible naval aviators as possible (and thorough training seems to be what they've been focusing on with early batches of J-15s), because they should have been able to anticipate a need for new pilots to fill the ranks of CV-18 as well as refreshing the pilots flying from CV-16/17, as well as having laxity/redundancy as needed.
I never suggested that the airwing of Fujian should be stood up of only experienced pilots.
Remember, what mack8 wrote was "you don't put rookie pilots on a rookie carrier".
I said that it makes sense that the initial pilots for Fujian would be pilots with existing fixed wing naval aviation experience (and thus J-15/T drivers).
Considering Fujian won't have be operating with a full airwing anyhow for a little while, they should have plentiful pilots to be drawn from the existing J-15/T pilot pool to make up the first elements of the airwing complement for each type.
Naturally, as production of J-35 and KJ-600 proceeds, and as the overall operation of Fujian becomes more consistent and they become comfortable with operating a full airwing, then those "initial J-35, KJ-600 J-15T pilot cadres aboard Fujian" will rotate out and will become instructors for new batches of pilots for those types of aircraft fresh from basic flight training without having to be experienced J-15/T pilots from the STOBAR carriers.
However, for Fujian entering service initially in its first couple of years it would be entirely logical (if not prudent) for the pilots of its fixed wing complement to be drawn from pilots with existing naval aviation experience.
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No worries. Just a clarification of what "initial" might mean, not just with you but with multiple posters prior to your post.
I get that the airframe count for J-15 is already past that, probably in anticipation of populating Fujian. I also get that the pilot:airframe ratio is also higher than 1:1 - but the actual billets on Liaoning/Shandong are limited - hence the comment that the pool of current qual, experienced carrier pilots to draw from is highly limited.
While the Fujian is undergoing testing and the actual airframes and pilots on board are very limited, it stands to reason that these are experienced aviators as the requirement is to test paltforms and procedures. But it also stands to reason that the future airwings for Fujian have already been stood up and doing land-based workup training, readying themselves for deployment onto Fujian once commisioned (soon?). So the requirements for those pilots is very here and now (or in fact needed "yesterday") and is probably part of the reason for the high airframe count for J-15s beyond attrition replacements and rotation - hence again, the difficulty of pulling experienced pilots from currrent population without affecting current capabilities.
So really, just a clarification of what constitutes initial and if we're talking about current qualifying leadership/training cadre or the already stood up airwings in it's entirety.
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