China's SCS Strategy Thread

[bsdnf]

Yeah maybe we have a case of a hot-headed commander here.

Don't say 164 was impulsive, that's too stupid. 164's track did not show any signs of actively approaching the PCG ship.

The more likely scenario is that 164 had no intention of ramming on PCG vessel, as this was unrealistic, but was instead used as a "cutting block" to block the movement route. However, the PCG vessel was too small and moved too fast, and the CCG vessel was hit by the cutting block when it was chasing it.

Sailing a 7,000-ton ship is not like driving a car. You can't just step on the brakes and stop it. 052 is not suitable for this scenario because a collision would cause unnecessary casualties, and damage would affect it’s valuable deployment time. 052 should not be here in the first place. The Philippine Navy is only worth to face the 054. This should be blamed on the PLAN and CCG's ship configuration issues, not the 164's mistakes.

 

[ToughWinding]

How long and how.much cost to fix the damage on the 052d? And the CCG?

If you look at the pictures, the CCG’s Type 056 will need its entire bow cut off and rebuilt. It can definitely be repaired within six months, but the cost won’t be low—probably around 30% of the ship’s value at least.
As for the PLAN’s Type 052D, the damage isn’t serious. The biggest issue is that hole above the waterline at the bow, but it won’t affect the ship’s ability to sail back normally. It’s also easy to fix: just cut away the damaged plating and deformed framing, weld on new parts, and repaint. That won’t cost much, and the repair period would be at most two months. Considering how embarrassing this incident is, Beijing will surely push to expedite the repairs, so getting it done within a month isn’t impossible.

 

[votran]

im tired of how soft china is , you guy seriously lack of will to fight , every great power need a punching bag , US bomb middle east freely without any other big power dare to do anything again them

russia bomb ukraine or georgia and the west/euro have no balls starting ww3 with them

china on the other hand .........only ship ram , water cannon with those pinoy .......

yes i know pinoy have a paper promise my US protect them in case confict happen , but the thing is that also the best way to humiliation them , destroy their reputation around the world

you only need a pair of balls to test those so called "protection promise" and philipines is the best target , the best chicken need to be kill to scare the monkey
they are weak , poor , no where near big valueable enough for US , japan , australia or anyone else to start any kind of war/sactions again china

not only that they also the best target to PR made in china weapon/navy/aircraft around the world . PLA can wipe the floor and come out on top with big k/d ratio bragging right , combat test , combat proven ..all sort of PR on internet
just like how US punch iraq and brag about how awesome their military are after that

and yet china still do nothing . for some reason i start to think some higher up in CCP really think the world run by fucking moral standard .........just like in fantasy story/movies > they end up trying so hard to be good guy there
that explained all the soft bahavior water cannon , boat ram and crap with philipine....

 

[thingymabob]

Don't say 164 was impulsive, that's too stupid. 164's track did not show any signs of actively approaching the PCG ship.

The more likely scenario is that 164 had no intention of ramming on PCG vessel, as this was unrealistic, but was instead used as a "cutting block" to block the movement route. However, the PCG vessel was too small and moved too fast, and the CCG vessel was hit by the cutting block when it was chasing it.

Controlling a 7,000-ton ship is not like driving a car. You can't just step on the brakes and stop it.

Isn't trying to cut a boat from moving effectively in the end actively approaching it? Especially when the video shows that at that moment the Filipino vessel was sailing away from the cutter and the destroyer. The difference between successfully cutting it off, hitting it, or completely missing it behind, is the difference of a couple seconds and slight changes in relative velocities between the two vessels.

And as you say, the very fact that a 7,000+ ton ship was attempting this was inappropriate in itself due to its inability to manoeuvre or change speed as quickly as a smaller vessel would be able to, which the CO of the destroyer should have been aware of and judged such a course of action to be unnecessarily dangerous and reckless.

As I said in a previous message, the responsibility lies the most within the one with the largest ship capable and probable of the most harm when used improperly.

 

[Engineer]

Even assuming they were bold enough to assume a PLAN vessel would not use military force (which in this case is a reasonable assumption), directly physically confronting a larger vessel built to naval standards is not done trivially due to risk of coming off worse in a collision (with associated ship damage, loss and crew injury or death being the potential consequences).

The Filipino has been confronting bigger vessels with smaller vessels since the beginning. Rather than viewing size difference as some form of deterrence, it should be treated at as something customary.

And even if the PCG ship was further emboldened by the 052D seeking to withdraw, the destroyer being in this position is odd to begin with, and the 052D should have the speed and mass to extricate itself even if it may not have the turn radius of smaller vessels, such that any smaller vessel can simply be ignored by sheer mass.

At the very least, there should have been many more tactical decisions available than plowing onto the flanks of the PCG vessel with a destroyer.

Speed and mass are only advantages in deep and open water, not necessary the case here when there are risks of running aground.

The command structure of the PLAN are not so rigid that ship COs rely on higher authorities for every tactical decision.
As I said, this is either the CO not observing ROEs (a CO problem), or the ROEs themselves being the issue (a higher level command problem), I suppose you can consider which would be more of a ridiculous prospect.

There is no either this or that, as both situations are ridiculous due to completely different reasons. In other navies, it is plausible for someone to go gung-ho when that same person is simultaneously the judge, jury, and executioner of rules of engagement. This is not the case in PLAN.

 

[bsdnf]

im tired of how soft china is , you guy seriously lack of will to fight , every great power need a punching bag , US bomb middle east freely without any other big power dare to do anything again them

russia bomb ukraine or georgia and the west/euro have no balls starting ww3 with them

china on the other hand .........only ship ram , water cannon with those pinoy .......

yes i know pinoy have a paper promise my US protect them in case confict happen , but the thing is that also the best way to humiliation them , destroy their reputation around the world

you only need a pair of balls to test those so called "protection promise" and philipines is the best target , the best chicken need to be kill to scare the monkey
they are weak , poor , no where near big valueable enough for US , japan , australia or anyone else to start any kind of war/sactions again china

not only that they also the best target to PR made in china weapon/navy/aircraft around the world . PLA can wipe the floor and come out on top with big k/d ratio bragging right , combat test , combat proven ..all sort of PR on internet
just like how US punch iraq and brag about how awesome their military are after that

and yet china still do nothing .

Maritime law enforcement and warfare are two different things. It's precisely these pointless wars that have contributed to the decline of the United States and Russia.

The Americans occupied Iraq and Afghanistan. What happens now? The situation in Afghanistan is self-explanatory. Iraq ostensibly has a pro-American government, but pro-Iranian factions also hold positions within it. US troops are being politely expelled. If it weren't for Soleimani's assassination by Trump, the situation would have been even worse.

If these actions can really deter other major powers, then why is the United States' Western Pacific strategy becoming increasingly pessimistic and why does NATO continue to expand eastward?

 

[votran]

Maritime law enforcement and warfare are two different things. It's precisely these pointless wars that have contributed to the decline of the United States and Russia.

The Americans occupied Iraq and Afghanistan. What happens now? The situation in Afghanistan is self-explanatory. Iraq ostensibly has a pro-American government, but pro-Iranian factions also hold positions within it. US troops are being politely expelled. If it weren't for Soleimani's assassination by Trump, the situation would have been even worse.

china doesn't need an all out invasion , also philipines can't do crap toward china after getting their ass kick

just a short raid to teach them a lession is enough , blow up all their sea worthy ship , military high value aircraft then left what they gonna do ? invite US in to set up military base/missle/weapon ?

they already did that

start attack china back with missile ? they don't dare , they don't even have balls or ability to attack other SEA nations as like iran missile israel after being bomb by US lol

cut off trade with china ? lol look at india they did same shit for few years after himalaya stick fight now they crawl back

 

[bsdnf]

china doesn't need an all out invasion , also philipines can't do crap toward china after getting their ass kick

just a short raid to teach them a lession is enough , blow up all their sea worthy ship , military high value aircraft then left what they gonna do ? invite US in to set up military base/missle/weapon ?

they already did that

start attack china back with missile ? they don't dare , they don't even have balls or ability to attack other SEA nations as like iran missile israel after being bomb by US lol

The problem is that the Philippine military doesn't actually have weapons worth bombing, and even if they were to be destroyed, it wouldn't deter anyone. And yes, as long as they don't overthrow the regime, they can still buy new weapons.

Think like the Israelis who kept bombing and still can’t solved the Iran? We are not Israelis

 

[votran]

Maritime law enforcement and warfare are two different things. It's precisely these pointless wars that have contributed to the decline of the United States and Russia.

The Americans occupied Iraq and Afghanistan. What happens now? The situation in Afghanistan is self-explanatory. Iraq ostensibly has a pro-American government, but pro-Iranian factions also hold positions within it. US troops are being politely expelled. If it weren't for Soleimani's assassination by Trump, the situation would have been even worse.

If these actions can really deter other major powers, then why is the United States' Western Pacific strategy becoming increasingly pessimistic and why does NATO continue to expand eastward?

1/ china not yet taken back taiwan or have any other military/navy support based around western pacific allow navy become real blue water super power yet
so saying US falling in term of deter other big power still too early
2/ NATO biggest expand eastward era is 90 > 2010 when russia still friendly , trying so hard to be good friend , act nice and soft

 

[GZDRefugee]

Maritime law enforcement and warfare are two different things. It's precisely these pointless wars that have contributed to the decline of the United States and Russia.

The Americans occupied Iraq and Afghanistan. What happens now? The situation in Afghanistan is self-explanatory. Iraq ostensibly has a pro-American government, but pro-Iranian factions also hold positions within it. US troops are being politely expelled. If it weren't for Soleimani's assassination by Trump, the situation would have been even worse.

If these actions can really deter other major powers, then why is the United States' Western Pacific strategy becoming increasingly pessimistic and why does NATO continue to expand eastward?

So what is stopping CCG cutters from putting a shell through a PH boat?