2025 Israel - Iranian conflict

SinoAmericanCW

Junior Member
Registered Member
In the short term it will work but what about in the next thirty or forty years? This is going to bite them hard when the current rule based order no longer wields disproportionate hard power.
In the coming decades, Türkiye will likely become the dominant military (and military-industrial) power of the region.

As for the Sunni Arab world, their fate will depend on whether the Gulf states (especially Saudi Arabia and the UAE) succeed in converting their oil and gas rents into a viable science-and-technology ecosystem.

As for Iran, it has little choice but to turn inward and focus on socioeconomic development. Its nuclear and foreign ambitions are over for the foreseeable future. And that's assuming the U.S. and Israel give it the necessary breather after the current fighting ends.
 

FriedButter

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Israel-Iran conflict could last only as long as their missiles hold out​

JERUSALEM — Since Friday, the same dramatic exchange has played out more than a half-dozen times over the skies of Israel: A barrage of Iranian ballistic missiles come streaking in. A flurry of Israeli defensive interceptors rise to knock out most, but not all, of the incoming volley.

One key question is how long each side can keep up. The answer may affect how long the conflict could last.
Israeli intelligence officials estimated that Iran had about 2,000 missiles capable of traveling 1,200 miles to hit Israel, but a significant fraction was destroyed the moment Israel’s covert operatives in Iran and its fighter jets launched a surprise attack early Friday, kicking off the conflict.

Since then, Israeli military officials say that Iran has launched roughly 400 missiles from its remaining stockpile and Israeli strikes have eliminated 120, or one-third, of Iran’s missile launchers. Moreover, Israeli officials announced Monday that they had attained air superiority over Tehran ahead of schedule, meaning they could further limit the Iranian forces’ ability to carry out launches.

Already, the intensity of Iran’s barrages appear to be sharply dropping. After firing more than 150 missiles on the first night of the conflict, Friday, Iran fired a barrage of just 10 on Tuesday afternoon.

“Iran has to make a very, very difficult calculation, because they have a limited amount of missiles, and considering the rate of fire, they cannot replenish in real time,” said Fabian Hinz, a military analyst with the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Hinz noted that even the 150 missiles fired Friday night were less than the 200 Iran fired at Israel in October in retaliation for Israel’s assassination of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders.

Even so, Israeli analysts caution that more than half of Iran’s arsenal remains intact, and an unknown quantity of missiles may be hidden in underground depots.

And while Israel has significantly degraded Iran’s attack capabilities, mounting a defense has been costly for Israel. The Marker, a leading Israeli financial newspaper, reported that missile defense costs Israel as much as 1 billion shekels, or roughly $285 million, a night.

As a result, observers say, a long war of attrition between Israel and Iran may not be possible — at least at the current intensity.
Without resupplies from the United States or greater involvement by U.S. forces, some assessments project Israel can maintain its missile defense for 10 or 12 more days if Iran maintains a steady tempo of attacks, said an individual briefed on U.S. and Israeli intelligence assessments, adding that as early as later this week, Israel’s systems may only be able to intercept a smaller proportion of missiles because of a need to ration defensive munitions. “They will need to select what they want to intercept,” said the individual, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter. “The system is already overwhelmed.”

Tal Inbar, an Israeli missile expert affiliated with the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance in Virginia, noted that in 2014, Israel sought a ceasefire with Hamas days before it ran out of air defense interceptors. The level of interceptor stocks is a highly sensitive subject in Israel, but “it could be a factor in a ceasefire” this time as well, Inbar said.

Israel employs a multilayered air defense system, consisting of its famous Iron Dome, which intercepts lower-altitude rockets; the David’s Sling and Arrow systems; and expensive Patriot and THAAD missile defense systems delivered from the United States.

Inbar said a problem for Israel is that it largely relies on the relatively expensive Arrow system, which fires missiles that cost $3 million each, to counter attacks from Iran. While inexpensive and mass-produced Iron Dome interceptors are useful against rudimentary rockets fired by Hamas, the Iron Dome is as ineffective as “shooting a 9-millimeter pistol” at heavy Iranian missiles that hurtle through the outer atmosphere at several times the speed of sound, Inbar said.

On Friday night, Israeli air defenses failed to stop Iranian missiles that narrowly missed the headquarters of the Israel Defense Forces but slammed into central Tel Aviv. On Sunday night, an Iranian missile took a major oil refinery near Haifa offline.

And on Tuesday morning, videos filmed from nearby and posted on social media, which The Post verified, showed four impacts from Iranian missiles in the vicinity of Israel’s intelligence headquarters, north of Tel Aviv. None of the four appeared to strike Mossad headquarters, landing hundreds of meters away, but one impacted inside Camp Moshe Dayan, a nearby site that reportedly hosts Israel’s military intelligence headquarters and Unit 8200, the country’s premier signals intelligence unit.

Iran’s state media reported claims made by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that it successfully killed Israeli intelligence and military officials, but those claims could be confirmed. The IDF did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

As of Tuesday, the Israeli government said that only 35 out of 400 missiles fired by Iran made impact — an interception success rate of more than 90 percent. Twenty-four civilians have been killed, with more than 600 injured, the government said.

Iranian authorities said that 224 people had been killed by Israeli strikes as of Sunday, the most recent figures available. They did not differentiate between military and civilian casualties. In several cases, Israeli missiles and drones have struck densely packed apartment buildings to kill Iranian military officials and nuclear scientists in their homes.

On Monday, Israel also struck the headquarters of Iran’s state broadcaster after Defense Minister Israel Katz pledged that “the mouthpiece of Iranian propaganda” would “disappear.” After the strike, the Israel Defense Forces said it had targeted an Iranian military “communication center” but did not offer evidence of a military presence at the location.

Jim Lamson, a former intelligence analyst focused on Iranian munitions and now a senior research associate at the Middlebury Institute’s James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, said Iran’s missile capabilities will continue to decline because Israel is now targeting its production facilities.

“Assuming their regime doesn’t change, or assuming they don’t agree to give up their missiles as part of a ceasefire, they’re going to have a huge problem reconstituting their ballistic missile forces,” Lamson said. “That is going to be a big result of how much Israel is able to damage and destroy their production facilities for missiles.”
Without resupplies from the United States or greater involvement by U.S. forces, some assessments project Israel can maintain its missile defense for 10 or 12 more days if Iran maintains a steady tempo of attacks,
“They will need to select what they want to intercept,” said the individual, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter. “The system is already overwhelmed.”
 

obj 705A

Junior Member
Registered Member
Israel's doctrine is to eliminate the leadership. They believe that this will lead to regime change, but this is unlikely to happen, as it did not happen with Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. They can weaken the entire organizational structure, but it will not lead to regime change because someone else will take over. This is wishful thinking.
where is Hezbollah now? Hezbollah has been neutered. Hezbollah is just sitting and watching giving no fks.
Iran and Hezbollah are like helpless chidren when compared to the Houthis and Hamas. Hamas cannot be killed because at this point Hamas is in the heart of every Palestinian especially those in Gaza. the Houthis on the other hand are true warriors unlike Hezbollah which folded after the death of Hassan Nasrallah.

Iran is much more similar to Hezbollah and is nothing like Hamas or the Houthis. Iran spent the past decades hiding behind the proxies thinking these proxies are it's shield.
in reality Hezbollah has been neutered.
the Houthis while brave are sperated from the battledfieled by the sea and the KSA so they can only disrupt shipping but cannot engage fully in this battle.
Hamas/Palestine is in a fight for it's life. they are the ones waiting for someone to help them not the other way around.
and in Iraq those pro iran militias have been utterly eaten and hollowed out by corruption. their main mission is to buy as many luxury cars and expensive appartments as possible. the Kataib Al-Escalade, Asaib Ahl Al-Lexus, and Saraya Al-Tahoe will not sacrafice their extravagant lifesyle.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
In the coming decades, Türkiye will likely become the dominant military (and military-industrial) power of the region.

As for the Sunni Arab world, their fate will depend on whether the Gulf states (especially Saudi Arabia and the UAE) succeed in converting their oil and gas rents into a viable science-and-technology ecosystem.

As for Iran, it has little choice but to turn inward and focus on socioeconomic development. Its nuclear and foreign ambitions are over for the foreseeable future. And that's assuming the U.S. and Israel give it the necessary breather after the current fighting ends.
If Iran is defeated or surrenders they will be balkanized and ruled by fundamentalist warlords like ISIS. They will not be allowed to develop.

If they play their cards right they can become a Middle Eastern version of Ukraine though. That's the best they can do now.
 

tokenanalyst

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As soon as the Iranians launched just 50 missiles and still hit targets at that moment you knew the air defend network was done for. And the other side of the equation. Is the IDF is overstretched and tired, is weird the Israelis are not boosting a massive target campaign. The seriously underestimated the magnitude of the requirements for this war.

People can criticize Iran for not investing in air defense, specially manpads, which is incredible.

But Israel deserve criticism for not investing in bombers, you see a photo of a huge facility and just one or two building hit. They have air superiority and they can't capitalize it. Any decent army would have just carpet bomb the damn thing. And on top of that they don't have long range conventional missiles.

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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
As soon as the Iranians launched just 50 missiles and still hit targets at that moment you knew the air defend network was done for. And the other side of the equation. Is the IDF is overstretched and tired, is weird the Israelis are not boosting a massive target campaign. The seriously underestimated the magnitude of the requirements for this war.

People can criticize Iran for not investing in air defense, specially manpads, which is incredible.

But Israel deserve criticism for not investing in bombers, you see a photo of a huge facility and just one or two building hit. They have air superiority and they can't capitalize it. Any decent army would have just carpet bomb the damn thing. And on top of that they don't have long range conventional missiles.

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None of the major countries that produce bombers really sell them… China did during the 80s but I don’t think they do any more.
 
Israel's doctrine is to eliminate the leadership. They believe that this will lead to regime change, but this is unlikely to happen, as it did not happen with Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. They can weaken the entire organizational structure, but it will not lead to regime change because someone else will take over. This is wishful thinking.
You are talking about one of the most unpopular regimes (among its domestic population) in the world here. The Iranian government enjoys far less domestic support than say Gadaffi, and less than Saddam and Assad. Not only is the regime extremely unpopular domestically, internationally nobody considers the Iranians a reliable partner, even other powers that are in opposition to the US. The question is whether the current regime will be replaced by a pro-Western liberal one or an anti-Western nationalist one. One thing that cannot be denied is that pro-Western sentiment has always held sway over a large proportion of the Iranian population.
 
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