China developing new heavy-duty carrier rockets

AssassinsMace said:

Interesting that China has put people into space yet when you read the media they make it sound like China is in a space race with countries that haven't even put anyone into space. China isn't the one in the space race since the Chinese space program has been pragmatic and conservative so far while everyone else is mostly motivated because of China.

Click to expand...

I think the reason is because China is following the footsteps of the US and the former Soviet Union in Space exploration. Another reason could be China's neighbour, Japan has previously launched their lunar orbiter, the Kaguya.

I agree that China doesn't see it as a Space race, but some article writers would spin it to make their articles sale.

Would having a space race be bad though? The space race between the Soviet Union and USA paid huge dividends for America, as it spurred an entire generation of students into science and math programs and helped launch high cost but high reward research. Having a space program pays so many dividends, as it has arms in many diverse areas of science and has direct practical uses for medicine, military, telecommunications, etc... .

I've always thought Japan and China had a space race, but if you say it isn't, I guess I could be wrong. I'm just saying it wouldn't be a bad thing. It could help accelerate research and there is a matter of pride by being the first country to land men on the Moon in the 21st century or even on Mars (didn't China/Russia declare that they'd do it by 2020 or something?).

Beijing 'planning space station'
China's Moon module taking off from Xichang on 24 October
Last month China launched its first lunar orbiter
China intends to launch its own space station in 2020, according to one of the country's leading space experts.

Rocket designer Long Lehao told state media scientists were on track to send "a small-scale 20-ton space workshop" into the Earth's orbit.

Space officials later said the plan had not been finalised.

The claim follows the launch of China's first Moon probe last month, amid what some analysts are calling an undeclared space race with Japan and India.

If the plan succeeds, China will become the only country to run its own station.

Since Russia's Mir station was decommissioned in 2001, the only such facility in operation is the International Space Station - a joint project of 16 nations.

Mr Long's comments were carried widely in Chinese media, but a space official later suggested the plans were not so definite.

"China at present has not decided on developing a space station," said Li Guoping, of the China National Space Administration.

Rocket breakthrough

Mr Long told the China Daily newspaper that the station was the third and final step in China's manned space programme.

The first stage was a manned flight in 2003 and the second would come in 2008, when astronauts are expected to walk in space.

"It is the first time a timetable has been made public for the building of the first space station," the China Daily quoted Mr Long as saying.

Mr Long said he was optimistic about the launch of the space station because of breakthroughs in Chinese rocket technology.

The new Long March V carrier rockets, which can carry heavier loads, are expected to be ready for testing in 2013, he said.

The BBC's Dan Griffiths, in Beijing, says China's rapid move into space is aimed at boosting national pride and international prestige.

But earlier this year, Beijing triggered international concern by using a ground-based missile to destroy a weather satellite as part of a weapons test.

Other countries in the region are also expanding and accelerating their space programmes.

Japan launched a lunar orbiter last month and India is planning to follow suit in April next year.

Such moves are fuelling claims of an undeclared Asian space race.

Click to expand...

Well there is certainly ambition to a space station but is mostly just speculation. Also i wonder why media still speaking of space race, i hardly would describe starting probes to moon as space race.
If there is one then it is more likely between US and China because of speculation of chinas ambition to establish a moon presence, the Bush adminastration have budget up the NASA and their plans o return to the moon as well. but this is in the future

ccL1 said:

Would having a space race be bad though? The space race between the Soviet Union and USA paid huge dividends for America, as it spurred an entire generation of students into science and math programs and helped launch high cost but high reward research. Having a space program pays so many dividends, as it has arms in many diverse areas of science and has direct practical uses for medicine, military, telecommunications, etc... .

Click to expand...

It depends how one person looks at it. We must remember the Space race between the US and the former Soviet Union was mostly motivated by the Cold War rather than scientific research.

Another factor is in the eyes of the Western countries, China's Space programme is in secrecy and attached to the military. This also adds to the worry of the West.

In the modern world today, a Cold War mentality is in no countries best interest.

In regards to scientific gains, absolutely, this would benefit Chinese scientists and students in the knowledge of Space Technology.

I've always thought Japan and China had a space race, but if you say it isn't, I guess I could be wrong. I'm just saying it wouldn't be a bad thing. It could help accelerate research and there is a matter of pride by being the first country to land men on the Moon in the 21st century or even on Mars (didn't China/Russia declare that they'd do it by 2020 or something?).

Click to expand...

Both CNSA and JAXA have denied they are in a Space Race. In my view this is all for the media, by confirming a Space Race would be officially declaring rivalry in Space and possibly lead to conflicts. However, in real, I think they are in a Space Race.

I agree with you with the research and pride, that is true for both China and Japan. This is because Space has been dominated by the West and China/Japan wants to be the leader of Space for Asia.

The Sino-Russia space mission to Mars is true, but it is still early days, this is their plan, but it could be changed depending on the political atmosphere by then.

GermanChinese said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Well there is certainly ambition to a space station but is mostly just speculation. Also i wonder why media still speaking of space race, i hardly would describe starting probes to moon as space race.

Click to expand...

Interesting article and yes, China's Space Station is an ambitious project. I don't think it is speculation, the Space Station is actually one of the long term goals of the CNSA.

Media is Media, they are paid to write interesting reports. Space technology is an very advanced area of research, therefore, anything in regards to space would be considered a space race between two or more countries. Most are generated by the media.

If there is one then it is more likely between US and China because of speculation of chinas ambition to establish a moon presence, the Bush adminastration have budget up the NASA and their plans o return to the moon as well. but this is in the future

Click to expand...

I agree that any future Space race or Space rivalry would be between China and the US. These two countries would dominate Space in the future. However, we could not dismiss the Russians since under Putin, Russia is recovering from the Soviet collapse and vast wealth generated from their huge gas reserves and high oil prices.

NASA was idle from the Columboa disaster, the US government has only increased their budget and NASA becoming active is only very recent. Strangely, this happened after China sent their first Taikonaut in Space back in 2003.

This tells us many things, the Space race is back for the US and the competitor is China.

GermanChinese said:

Well there is certainly ambition to a space station but is mostly just speculation.

Click to expand...

Here is more information about China Space Station.

Launch of space station set for 2020

China is well on track to launching its own space station by 2020, according to a top rocket expert.

Long Lehao, a renowned academic and a leading designer of Long March 3A, the launch vehicle for the country's first lunar probe Chang'e I, described China's planned space station as "a small-scale 20-ton space workshop".

It is the first time a timetable has been made public for the building of the first space station, the third and final step of the country's current manned space program, Long told China Daily.

Former president Jiang Zemin announced the three-stage manned space flight plan in 1992.

Marking the first stage were two manned space missions during the last four years, including the first by Shenzhou V in 2003.

The second stage, planned for Shenzhou VII in 2008 with several astronauts, will test spacewalking and other out-of-capsule space missions.

After that, China will be a substantial step closer to establishing its own space station, Long said.

It is expected to be the second operational one in the world after the International Space Station and the only one run by a single country, after Russia's Mir space station was decommissioned in 2001.

The 400-ton International Space Station is a joint project of 16 nations: the United States, Russia, Japan, Canada, Brazil and 11 countries from the European Space Agency, and orbits some 360 km above Earth.

China has expressed interest in becoming the 17th nation to join the project.

Long, one of the first researchers to push for heavier rockets 20 years ago, said he was optimistic about the space station plan because China had made significant progress developing a new family of rocket launchers.

He revealed that key technology breakthroughs - including the yet-to-be-built powerful Long March 5 carrier rockets - had put the project closer to production stage.

"Technologies for two key engines powered by liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen along with regular energy were found to be more workable and reliable," Long said.

Each of the engines, one with a thrust power of 120 tons, and the other with 50 tons, have already undergone significant ignition testing, he said.

The carrier's increased diameter from 3.35 meters to 5 meters would allow it to carry heavier loads including space stations or heavyweight satellites, which the current Long March 3A rockets cannot handle.

The new-generation Long March 5 rocket is likely to undergo launch trials by 2013 and is expected to be the fourth most powerful rocket in the world, after two developed by the US and one by the EU.

"Heavier rockets are capable of lifting off more powerful geosynchronous satellites with multi-transmitting devices and a wider coverage of signal channels," Long said.

The Long March 5 rockets will be made in Tianjin.

china was planning for the successor for CZ2,3 for a quite sometime, if i remember correctly the first time i heard about CZ5 was sometime around late 90s before the offical date of 2002

the CZ5 heavylift is plan in the previous decade, the engine weight about the same as russia model but the output is lesser. normally you expect around 30ton not 25ton for these system. you can read about the engine:




while 25ton appear alot but those are only LEO numbers, for Geosync it would manage just 10ton. and since most satellites are meant for Geosync, that would be the real usable payload for the system.

the current status of the CZ5 is delayed.