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counter stealth radars and fighter tactics

This is a discussion on counter stealth radars and fighter tactics within the World Armed Forces forums, part of the World Strategic Defence Area category; Before discussing passive radar, several other radar and sensor systems are worth mentioning in terms of counterstealth capability. One of ...

  1. #1
    MiG-29 is offline Banned Idiot
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    counter stealth radars and fighter tactics

    Before discussing passive radar, several
    other radar and sensor systems are worth
    mentioning in terms of counterstealth capability.
    One of the most significant counters
    to stealth, namely conventional very high
    frequency (VHF) and ultra high frequency
    (UHF) radar, has been around since World
    War II and is still in use today for long-range
    air surveillance. Most LO techniques are
    designed to defeat acquisition and fire control
    radar in the X band, which uses centimeter
    wavelength. VHF- and UHF-band radar,
    however, uses decimeter- to meter-long
    wavelength.
    In general, the RCS of an aircraft
    increases as wavelength of the illuminating
    radar increases.30 Furthermore, when the
    radar wavelength is in the same order of magnitude
    as the aircraft or parts of it, the radar
    waves and the aircraft resonate, which significantly
    increases the RCS of the aircraft.31
    It
    is the physics of longer wavelength and resonance that enables VHF and UHF radar to
    detect stealth aircraft. Poor resolution in angle
    and range, however, has historically prevented
    these radars from providing accurate targeting
    and fire control.32
    Since the Gulf War, the Russian defense
    radar industry has put considerable effort into
    digitizing its VHF and UHF radar systems
    to improve counterstealth capability. Russias
    older model radars now have improved resolution
    and signal processing, and newly developed
    models, such as the Nebo surface vehicle
    unit, which is a VHF adaptive electronically
    steered array radar, likely present significant
    counterstealth capability.33
    Other recently developed conventional
    radars likely to have counterstealth capability
    include Lockheed Martins theater highaltitude
    area defense radar and the Israeli
    Green Pine radar (recently sold to India),
    systems with both long range and high
    resolution in the UHF L-band.34 The SignalThe Signal
    Multi-beam Acquisition Radar for Tracking
    (L) naval radar manufactured by Thales is
    yet another system with reputed counterstealth
    capability.35
    Passive listening systems, such as electronic
    support measures (ESM) and direction
    finding (DF), attempt to detect stealth
    aircraft radar, radio, and data link emissions
    and pass this information to surveillance
    radars. LPI techniques of stealth are designed
    to reduce or deny ESM and DF, but systems
    such as the Russian Kolchuga remain formidable
    threats that are likely being updated
    with digital processing.
    36
    Another counter to stealth is IR/electrooptical
    (EO) systems, which include IR search
    and track and high magnification optics. Such
    systems, however, are limited in the ability
    to scan large volumes of airspace and usually
    must be cued by other sensors. In addition,
    most of this spectrum is degraded by clouds,
    low illumination, and low visibility. Stealth
    aircraft counter IR/EO through heat signature
    management, stealthy flight profiles, and LO
    paint schemes.
    Growing in potential as a counterstealth
    technology is millimeter wave (MMW)
    imaging, which uses the radiometric signature
    naturally emitted by all objects. MMW
    penetrates clouds and low visibility. The waveform
    can also be transmitted by radar, which
    then receives and processes the return echo.
    The A64 Apache Longbow/Hellfire system
    is an example of operational MMW radar.
    The Russian defense industry has developed MMW antiair missile seekers, and other
    countries are following suit.37
    While the aforementioned technologies
    offer important capabilities, they possess
    limitations that restrict their effectiveness
    for air defense. Conventional radar is vulnerable
    to detection and attack by electronic
    warfare and air-delivered weapons; listening
    systems do not provide tracking information;
    and IR/EO/MMW is limited in surveillance
    capabilities.
    In contrast, passive radar is covert, all
    weather, and capable of medium- to longrange
    surveillance, and shows strong potential
    in detecting, tracking, and targeting stealth
    aircraft. It is thus emerging as a solid competitor
    in the counterstealth game.
    Passive Radar
    A new paradigm is emerging, enabled by
    advances in networked computing and passive
    radar technology. Because of their potential to
    counter stealth-based airpower advantage, the
    use of these technologies by peer competitors
    is highly likely. That these systems are both
    low cost and, in part, based on commercialoff-
    the-shelf technology makes them attractive
    for nonpeer countries as well.
    Passive radars use transmitters of
    opportunity. Potential waveforms include FM
    and AM radio, television, digital audio/video
    broadcast, and cellular phone networks.38
    Today, passive radar is often configured as
    a multistatic system using three or more
    transmitters and receivers.
    Passive radar locates and tracks targets
    through a combination of methods, greatly
    simplified here for the sake of discussion.
    First, the radar measures the time difference
    of arrival between the direct signal from the
    transmitter and the reflected signal from the
    target to determine the bistatic range. Bistatic
    http://www.ndu.edu/press/lib/images/jfq-55/22.pdf


    The meeting of wavelengths between radar and aircraft causes resonation between the two, significantly raising an aircraft's reflection in the radar spectrum, making it much more visible. VHF radar has been incorporated into the Russian military's 1L119 Nebo SVU, its first VHF-band active electronically steered array (AESA); although detailed analysis of this vehicle-mounted array, Russian sources report it has achieved excellent results in spotting stealth aircraft.Stealth technology and the counter-stealth response - Airforce Technology


    The asymmetric dimension to future Russian air warfare programs entails the development of counter very-low-observable (CVLO) radar technologies and long-range, high-speed surface-to-air missile (SAM) designs, complemented by a new generation of short-range point defense weapons intended to destroy incoming guided weapons, especially anti-radiation missiles, cruise missiles and guided bombs. All systems are built for high mobility, typically with 5-min. shoot and scoot times to permit scooting inside of the targeting and engagement cycles of most guided munitions.

    The focus in Russian CVLO radar has been in the 1-meter VHF band. Stealth shaping in fighters is largely ineffective in VHF because components such as stabilizers and wingtips have dimensions close to the radar wavelength. Radar-absorbent treatments developed for S-band and above are ineffective in VHF due to both electrical behavior and thickness. The flagship product is the NNIIRT/Almaz-Antey 55Zh6M Nebo M 3-D radar system, of which 100 were recently ordered to re-equip Russian air defense forces. The Nebo M is uniquely a multi-band design, comprising three radars and a central data fusion and command post module, all carried on separate high-mobility 8 x 8 24-ton vehicles.
    The Nebo-SVU was credited with space-time adaptive processing technology similar to that or the Northrop Grumman E-2D Hawkeye, and in 2002 NNIIRT's Igor Krylov said We can see the stealth [F-117A] as clearly as any other plane.


    New Russian Airpower Efforts Show Progress


    Advances in processing power may enable better tracking systems for long-wavelength radars that reduce the historical LO technology advantage. We know very high frequency (VHF), and ultra-high frequency (UHF) long-range air defense radars can see stealth aircraft at great distances, because LO techniques are targeted towards X-band target-tracking radar systems.28 As the longer wavelength reflects off an aircraft, it significantly increases the Radar Cross Section (RCS), which enables VHF and UHF radars to detect stealth aircraft at further distances than fire-control X-band radars.

    New Russian models like the Nebo surface vehicle unit, a VHF adaptive electronically steered array radar, likely presents a significant counter-stealth capability. By 2035 other technology advances could leverage this capability.
    Another counter-stealth technology is Passive Coherent Location (PCL).

    Currently many countries are fielding PCL radar systems such as the Russian VERA-E, which is said to be the only system that can detect the B-2


    http://dtlweb.au.af.mil///exlibris/d...81NzEwMg==.pdf

    РЛС Небо-СВУ (1Л119)
    Радиолокационная станция Небо-СВУ (1Л119) предназначена для автоматического обнаружения, измерения координат и сопровождения широкого класса современных воздушных объектов: самолетов стратегической и тактической авиации, авиационных ракет типа АСАЛМ, малоразмерных целей, малозаметных целей, в частности, выполненных по технологии СТЕЛС


    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119)
    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119) is designed to automatically identify, coordinate measuring and tracking a broad class of modern aircraft include aircraft strategic and tactical aircraft, aircraft missiles "ASALM" small targets, stealth targets, in particular, made ​​by technology "Stealth"

    - - -
    Last edited by MiG-29; 03-02-2013 at 06:37 AM.
    Kurt likes this.

  2. #2
    FirstImpulse is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    25

    Re: counter stealth radars and fighter tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-29 View Post
    Before discussing passive radar, several
    other radar and sensor systems are worth
    mentioning in terms of counterstealth capability.
    One of the most significant counters
    to stealth, namely conventional very high
    frequency (VHF) and ultra high frequency
    (UHF) radar, has been around since World
    War II and is still in use today for long-range
    air surveillance. Most LO techniques are
    designed to defeat acquisition and fire control
    radar in the X band, which uses centimeter
    wavelength. VHF- and UHF-band radar,
    however, uses decimeter- to meter-long
    wavelength.
    In general, the RCS of an aircraft
    increases as wavelength of the illuminating
    radar increases.30 Furthermore, when the
    radar wavelength is in the same order of magnitude
    as the aircraft or parts of it, the radar
    waves and the aircraft resonate, which significantly
    increases the RCS of the aircraft.31
    It
    is the physics of longer wavelength and resonance that enables VHF and UHF radar to
    detect stealth aircraft. Poor resolution in angle
    and range, however, has historically prevented
    these radars from providing accurate targeting
    and fire control.32
    Since the Gulf War, the Russian defense
    radar industry has put considerable effort into
    digitizing its VHF and UHF radar systems
    to improve counterstealth capability. Russias
    older model radars now have improved resolution
    and signal processing, and newly developed
    models, such as the Nebo surface vehicle
    unit, which is a VHF adaptive electronically
    steered array radar, likely present significant
    counterstealth capability.33
    Other recently developed conventional
    radars likely to have counterstealth capability
    include Lockheed Martins theater highaltitude
    area defense radar and the Israeli
    Green Pine radar (recently sold to India),
    systems with both long range and high
    resolution in the UHF L-band.34 The SignalThe Signal
    Multi-beam Acquisition Radar for Tracking
    (L) naval radar manufactured by Thales is
    yet another system with reputed counterstealth
    capability.35
    Passive listening systems, such as electronic
    support measures (ESM) and direction
    finding (DF), attempt to detect stealth
    aircraft radar, radio, and data link emissions
    and pass this information to surveillance
    radars. LPI techniques of stealth are designed
    to reduce or deny ESM and DF, but systems
    such as the Russian Kolchuga remain formidable
    threats that are likely being updated
    with digital processing.
    36
    Another counter to stealth is IR/electrooptical
    (EO) systems, which include IR search
    and track and high magnification optics. Such
    systems, however, are limited in the ability
    to scan large volumes of airspace and usually
    must be cued by other sensors. In addition,
    most of this spectrum is degraded by clouds,
    low illumination, and low visibility. Stealth
    aircraft counter IR/EO through heat signature
    management, stealthy flight profiles, and LO
    paint schemes.
    Growing in potential as a counterstealth
    technology is millimeter wave (MMW)
    imaging, which uses the radiometric signature
    naturally emitted by all objects. MMW
    penetrates clouds and low visibility. The waveform
    can also be transmitted by radar, which
    then receives and processes the return echo.
    The A64 Apache Longbow/Hellfire system
    is an example of operational MMW radar.
    The Russian defense industry has developed MMW antiair missile seekers, and other
    countries are following suit.37
    While the aforementioned technologies
    offer important capabilities, they possess
    limitations that restrict their effectiveness
    for air defense. Conventional radar is vulnerable
    to detection and attack by electronic
    warfare and air-delivered weapons; listening
    systems do not provide tracking information;
    and IR/EO/MMW is limited in surveillance
    capabilities.
    In contrast, passive radar is covert, all
    weather, and capable of medium- to longrange
    surveillance, and shows strong potential
    in detecting, tracking, and targeting stealth
    aircraft. It is thus emerging as a solid competitor
    in the counterstealth game.
    Passive Radar
    A new paradigm is emerging, enabled by
    advances in networked computing and passive
    radar technology. Because of their potential to
    counter stealth-based airpower advantage, the
    use of these technologies by peer competitors
    is highly likely. That these systems are both
    low cost and, in part, based on commercialoff-
    the-shelf technology makes them attractive
    for nonpeer countries as well.
    Passive radars use transmitters of
    opportunity. Potential waveforms include FM
    and AM radio, television, digital audio/video
    broadcast, and cellular phone networks.38
    Today, passive radar is often configured as
    a multistatic system using three or more
    transmitters and receivers.
    Passive radar locates and tracks targets
    through a combination of methods, greatly
    simplified here for the sake of discussion.
    First, the radar measures the time difference
    of arrival between the direct signal from the
    transmitter and the reflected signal from the
    target to determine the bistatic range. Bistatic
    http://www.ndu.edu/press/lib/images/jfq-55/22.pdf


    The meeting of wavelengths between radar and aircraft causes resonation between the two, significantly raising an aircraft's reflection in the radar spectrum, making it much more visible. VHF radar has been incorporated into the Russian military's 1L119 Nebo SVU, its first VHF-band active electronically steered array (AESA); although detailed analysis of this vehicle-mounted array, Russian sources report it has achieved excellent results in spotting stealth aircraft.Stealth technology and the counter-stealth response - Airforce Technology


    The asymmetric dimension to future Russian air warfare programs entails the development of counter very-low-observable (CVLO) radar technologies and long-range, high-speed surface-to-air missile (SAM) designs, complemented by a new generation of short-range point defense weapons intended to destroy incoming guided weapons, especially anti-radiation missiles, cruise missiles and guided bombs. All systems are built for high mobility, typically with 5-min. shoot and scoot times to permit scooting inside of the targeting and engagement cycles of most guided munitions.

    The focus in Russian CVLO radar has been in the 1-meter VHF band. Stealth shaping in fighters is largely ineffective in VHF because components such as stabilizers and wingtips have dimensions close to the radar wavelength. Radar-absorbent treatments developed for S-band and above are ineffective in VHF due to both electrical behavior and thickness. The flagship product is the NNIIRT/Almaz-Antey 55Zh6M Nebo M 3-D radar system, of which 100 were recently ordered to re-equip Russian air defense forces. The Nebo M is uniquely a multi-band design, comprising three radars and a central data fusion and command post module, all carried on separate high-mobility 8 x 8 24-ton vehicles.
    The Nebo-SVU was credited with space-time adaptive processing technology similar to that or the Northrop Grumman E-2D Hawkeye, and in 2002 NNIIRT's Igor Krylov said We can see the stealth [F-117A] as clearly as any other plane.


    New Russian Airpower Efforts Show Progress


    Advances in processing power may enable better tracking systems for long-wavelength radars that reduce the historical LO technology advantage. We know very high frequency (VHF), and ultra-high frequency (UHF) long-range air defense radars can see stealth aircraft at great distances, because LO techniques are targeted towards X-band target-tracking radar systems.28 As the longer wavelength reflects off an aircraft, it significantly increases the Radar Cross Section (RCS), which enables VHF and UHF radars to detect stealth aircraft at further distances than fire-control X-band radars.

    New Russian models like the Nebo surface vehicle unit, a VHF adaptive electronically steered array radar, likely presents a significant counter-stealth capability. By 2035 other technology advances could leverage this capability.
    Another counter-stealth technology is Passive Coherent Location (PCL).

    Currently many countries are fielding PCL radar systems such as the Russian VERA-E, which is said to be the only system that can detect the B-2


    http://dtlweb.au.af.mil///exlibris/d...81NzEwMg==.pdf

    РЛС Небо-СВУ (1Л119)
    Радиолокационная станция Небо-СВУ (1Л119) предназначена для автоматического обнаружения, измерения координат и сопровождения широкого класса современных воздушных объектов: самолетов стратегической и тактической авиации, авиационных ракет типа АСАЛМ, малоразмерных целей, малозаметных целей, в частности, выполненных по технологии СТЕЛС


    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119)
    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119) is designed to automatically identify, coordinate measuring and tracking a broad class of modern aircraft include aircraft strategic and tactical aircraft, aircraft missiles "ASALM" small targets, stealth targets, in particular, made ​​by technology "Stealth"

    - - -
    The problem with UHF/VHF radars is that they have next to no accuracy. You would need multiple radiators and recivers over a wide area, and in any case the stealths coming in are going to see you way before you see them. They can work their way around detection zones or just punch a hole in the system the old fashion way. There is no real counter to stealth, even if the Russians have always said so.

  3. #3
    MiG-29 is offline Banned Idiot
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
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    Re: counter stealth radars and fighter tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstImpulse View Post
    The problem with UHF/VHF radars is that they have next to no accuracy. You would need multiple radiators and recivers over a wide area, and in any case the stealths coming in are going to see you way before you see them. They can work their way around detection zones or just punch a hole in the system the old fashion way. There is no real counter to stealth, even if the Russians have always said so.
    Russian marketing literature and numerous
    interviews with chief designers or senior design
    engineers invariably focus down on the issue of
    counter-stealth capabilities in these radars. Key
    points, raised repeatedly in interviews are Raleigh
    and resonance mode scattering versus geometrical
    optics scattering and skin depth impairing the
    performance of radar absorbent coatings. These
    are precisely what radio frequency physics and the
    extensive unclassified US engineering literature on
    stealth identify as key limitations (see below).
    More than one Russian designer has publicly
    commented on the F-117A, famously known in the
    West as a ball bearing sized target in the S-band
    and X-band, as a one half square metre sized or
    beachball sized radar target in the VHF band
    . Likely
    this claim is the result of detailed scientific analysis
    of radar tapes from the Allied Force campaign.
    Russian and Byelo-Russian designers have claimed
    detection ranges of up to 180 nautical miles against
    fighter sized stealth aircraft,
    claims consistent with
    cited range specifications for these radars.


    source

    http://www.ausairpower.net/SP/DT-Rus-VHF-Radar-2008.pdf

    РЛС Небо-СВУ (1Л119)
    Радиолокационная станция Небо-СВУ (1Л119) предназначена для автоматического обнаружения, измерения координат и сопровождения широкого класса современных воздушных объектов: самолетов стратегической и тактической авиации, авиационных ракет типа АСАЛМ, малоразмерных целей, малозаметных целей, в частности, выполненных по технологии СТЕЛС


    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119)
    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119) is designed to automatically identify, coordinate measuring and tracking a broad class of modern aircraft include aircraft strategic and tactical aircraft, aircraft missiles "ASALM" small targets, stealth targets, in particular, made ​​by technology "Stealth"

    source
    - - - Almaz-Antey

  4. #4
    FirstImpulse is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    25

    Re: counter stealth radars and fighter tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by MiG-29 View Post
    Russian marketing literature and numerous
    interviews with chief designers or senior design
    engineers invariably focus down on the issue of
    counter-stealth capabilities in these radars. Key
    points, raised repeatedly in interviews are Raleigh
    and resonance mode scattering versus geometrical
    optics scattering and skin depth impairing the
    performance of radar absorbent coatings. These
    are precisely what radio frequency physics and the
    extensive unclassified US engineering literature on
    stealth identify as key limitations (see below).
    More than one Russian designer has publicly
    commented on the F-117A, famously known in the
    West as a ball bearing sized target in the S-band
    and X-band, as a one half square metre sized or
    beachball sized radar target in the VHF band
    . Likely
    this claim is the result of detailed scientific analysis
    of radar tapes from the Allied Force campaign.
    Russian and Byelo-Russian designers have claimed
    detection ranges of up to 180 nautical miles against
    fighter sized stealth aircraft,
    claims consistent with
    cited range specifications for these radars.


    source

    http://www.ausairpower.net/SP/DT-Rus-VHF-Radar-2008.pdf

    РЛС Небо-СВУ (1Л119)
    Радиолокационная станция Небо-СВУ (1Л119) предназначена для автоматического обнаружения, измерения координат и сопровождения широкого класса современных воздушных объектов: самолетов стратегической и тактической авиации, авиационных ракет типа АСАЛМ, малоразмерных целей, малозаметных целей, в частности, выполненных по технологии СТЕЛС


    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119)
    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119) is designed to automatically identify, coordinate measuring and tracking a broad class of modern aircraft include aircraft strategic and tactical aircraft, aircraft missiles "ASALM" small targets, stealth targets, in particular, made ​​by technology "Stealth"

    source
    - - - Almaz-Antey
    180 NMI? I suggest not linking to APA, it is not a valid source by any means. You can think what you want, but the laws of physics don't back any anti-Stealth concepts up- they have about as much reality in them as "Plasma-stealth". UHF/VHF radars don't have the accuracy to fix a modern Raptor/JSF, or dare I say J-20. Not to mention they are far more susceptible to jamming. I stand by my previous argument. Not going to discuss this further.

  5. #5
    MiG-29 is offline Banned Idiot
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Re: counter stealth radars and fighter tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstImpulse View Post
    180 NMI? I suggest not linking to APA, it is not a valid source by any means. You can think what you want, but the laws of physics don't back any anti-Stealth concepts up- they have about as much reality in them as "Plasma-stealth". UHF/VHF radars don't have the accuracy to fix a modern Raptor/JSF, or dare I say J-20. Not to mention they are far more susceptible to jamming. I stand by my previous argument. Not going to discuss this further.
    You can believe what you want, i did quote Almaz-Antey, a Russian manufacturer and many other sources.

    Russian manufacturers have the technology, which is based upon physics and math.


    and they say



    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119)
    Radar "Sky-SVU" (1L119) is designed to automatically identify, coordinate measuring and tracking a broad class of modern aircraft include aircraft strategic and tactical aircraft, aircraft missiles "ASALM" small targets, stealth targets, in particular, made ​​by technology "Stealth"



    Saying tracking is your word against them

    Cassidian's passive radar is able to detect even stalth aircraft.

    Cassidian, the defence and security division of EADS, has developed what is known as "passive radar" that can locate even difficult-to-detect flying objects such as stealth aircraft and that itself is practically undetectable. In contrast to conventional radar, passive radar doesn't emit any radiation, but instead analyses radiation reflections from other emitters, such as radio and television stations, to detect objects. "The principle of passive radar has been known for a long time," says Elmar Compans, Head of Sensors & Electronic Warfare at Cassidian. "However, we have now integrated the latest capabilities of digital receiver and signal processing technology to significantly enhance range and detection accuracy by monitoring various emitters at the same time."

    With its passive radar, Cassidian is focussing on the requirements of civil and military airspace control which until now could not or not sufficiently be met using active emitting radar. In civil application, passive radar makes cost-effective air traffic control possible without any additional emissions and without making demands on transmission frequencies in short supply. In military applications, the system enables large-area surveillance using networked receivers, while offering the decisive operational advantage that passive radar cannot be located by hostile forces. The particular characteristics of the omnipresent radio signals used for operation enable detection of even objects that are difficult to detect, such as stealth aircraft or stealth ships. A further advantage of the new technology is its increased detection capacity in areas of radar shadow such as mountainous terrain and its capability to locate extremely slow and low flying objects.

    A demonstration system has already been delivered to the German Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement (BWB). Cassidian's passive radar can be used for mobile deployment in a vehicle of the size of a commercial van and thus can be moved very quickly and with little logistical effort. After successful testing, including at Stuttgart Airport, the plan is to set up a production prototype system and to carry out evaluation programmes by both Cassidian and the customer by the end of the year.
    Passive radar from CASSIDIAN remains invisible - Cassidian.com

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