That is simply the shadow of the helo taking the picture of the vessel.among other things, I'm confused by the reflection of the helo off the water (what I put into the red ellipse:
That's all.
US Navy DDG 1000 Zumwalt Class
- Thread starter Scratch
- Start date
That's all.
Hehehe...yes, it is very futuristic and modern looking...and it has the new technologies, and space to add more later...to warrant that.
I really like this view of her going to sea
Yes, that is its role if one had to define it on paper.
Absolutely it will be capable of carrying out medium range and self defense in the AAW domain.
What I meant is that it will not be carrying out air defence in the capability of a Tico or a Burke.
I suppose naval gunfire support is a big doubt I have. The AGS as it is has a range of 83nmi, supposedly. That means to attack a target on the beach, a Zumwalt class must get within that range of the beach.
The deep strike missions with LACMs of course, could equally be carried out by Burkes and will not be a capability unique to the Zumwalt class.
Sure, but in that case, I cannot help but wonder if the Zumwalt class' extensive stealthiness is worth it if it will be accompanied by a large number of non-stealthy vessels.
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The way I see it, the Zumwalt class only has certain "unique" capabilities vs other ships in the USN fleet, and the challenge is that the the Zumwalt's cost and its stealthy characteristics means it may not be able to use some of its unique capabilities in the lowest risk manner.
I am of course referring to the naval gunfire support role, where the Zumwalt class may have to be accompanied by other ships to safely perform the NGFS mission against a shore target, especially against an opfor which may have certain intact air, surface or subsurface capabilities.
Other unique capabilities include command capabilities, and the ability to act as a test ship for new weapons such as rail guns or lasers.
This isn't to say the Zumwalt class isn't a very capable and very advanced warship. In fact, I expect the Zumwalt class will pioneer many design features and subsystem types that will be considered common place in warships that will emerge by the mid 21st century.
The "issue" IMHO, is that too few of Zumwalt class ships are being built, and each ship (even excluding R and D costs) is very expensive, and when combined with the unique combat capabilities of the ship (AKA capabilities which other USN ships do not have, specifically NGFS)... it makes it seem like the Zumwalt class is a multirole warship on paper but may likely only be operated in certain unique niche roles during wartime, and that other capabilities of the Zumwalt class could have been conducted by other ships of the USN surface combatant fleet.
It just seems like too many conflicting demands were placed on the Zumwalt class and what emerged was a ship that features cutting edge subsystems and design features, but when taken as a whole (in conjunction with the ship's cost and the limited production run), the ship is too expensive and too few in number to be used in roles where it can truly excel
One question about NGFS in combination with stealth: the way I understand it, nowadays you can use radar to track where artillery fire is coming from.
Would this mean that once a Zumwalt starts shooting it will "show itself" to an opponent no matter how good its stealth is, or is this not a real problem in practice ?
Would this mean that once a Zumwalt starts shooting it will "show itself" to an opponent no matter how good its stealth is, or is this not a real problem in practice ?
I think it will strongly depend on whether the opfor has the capabilities intact to perform counter battery radar.
The truth is, I think the Zumwalt class will have to attack a weakened or low tech opponent for its AGS to be truly useful at 83nmi in the NGFS role, if it wanted to do so alone.
But a Zumwalt DDG will also be accompanied by a variety of other ships and aircraft conducting large scale combined arms attacks against opposing ground and air forces... which makes one wonder just how essential its stealth characteristics are and how much of Zumwalt's other capabilities may have been compromised by stealth demands and how much cost may have risen due to it.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I share Bltizo's confusion as to the Zumwalt's intended role and purpose.
This may sound uncharitable, and is not meant as a diss at the ship, but to me, the Zumwalt feels like a tech demonstrator.
It has packed to the gills with all sorts of advance systems and concepts, but it seems like a lot of those were added because they could be, rather than because they were needed.
In effect, you have systems and capabilities which would probably have been better off split between two or even three ship classes packed into a single hull.
The AGS and future rail guns should go on a dedicated fire support ship at least. That would at a stroke create enough space for a massive amount of VLS cells, while at the same time removing the temptation and need to send these ships close enough to hostile shores where they are vulnerable to attack from all sorts of systems.
You either need the stealth shaping and advanced systems to defend against tough opponents, in which case you don't want your Zumwalts anywhere close to AGS range of the enemy coast, or if the enemy is so low tech or defeated as to allow Zumwalts to close within AGS range of their shores with near zero risk, you don't really need all the stealth shaping and advanced systems do you?
As advanced as these ships are, the fact that the navy had scaled back the order to a mere 3 ships pretty much makes it a tech demonstration class in my book.
Their true worth and contribution would come from the follow on classes that uses technology and concepts pioneered and proven by the Zumwalt.
This may sound uncharitable, and is not meant as a diss at the ship, but to me, the Zumwalt feels like a tech demonstrator.
It has packed to the gills with all sorts of advance systems and concepts, but it seems like a lot of those were added because they could be, rather than because they were needed.
In effect, you have systems and capabilities which would probably have been better off split between two or even three ship classes packed into a single hull.
The AGS and future rail guns should go on a dedicated fire support ship at least. That would at a stroke create enough space for a massive amount of VLS cells, while at the same time removing the temptation and need to send these ships close enough to hostile shores where they are vulnerable to attack from all sorts of systems.
You either need the stealth shaping and advanced systems to defend against tough opponents, in which case you don't want your Zumwalts anywhere close to AGS range of the enemy coast, or if the enemy is so low tech or defeated as to allow Zumwalts to close within AGS range of their shores with near zero risk, you don't really need all the stealth shaping and advanced systems do you?
As advanced as these ships are, the fact that the navy had scaled back the order to a mere 3 ships pretty much makes it a tech demonstration class in my book.
Their true worth and contribution would come from the follow on classes that uses technology and concepts pioneered and proven by the Zumwalt.
Well, there should be no confusion. They are a large multi-role destroyer with an emphasis on fire support.
That's very straight forward.
They were designed to be a class of 32. That was the design and the ships are outfitted accordingly to fulfill their role
There could easily be more ordered with a change in Administrations and a supporting Congress. The construction line is going to be active through the election and into the first years of the new admin. I have a feeling that scenario will be available.
Whether they order more or not, is yet to be seen.
But the ships are being built to do the job they were intended for. They will go to sea and do so. They will be involved in combat operations in support of the US Marines and other ground elements...I can pretty much promise it.
Heck, every major surface combatant has the capability of adding technologies, testing them, and then instituting them.
This will be no different. In this case, these vessels were designed from the onset to have the emerging technologies implemented on them. The Rail Gun, the all electric drive, the lasers, PVLS etc., etc. They were designed to receive these things.
So, in a sense they will demonstrate those technologies...but they will not just do that or be dedicated to that...they will receive them as designed and then operationally use them.
True technology demonstrators are not used predominantly in actual operational duties. These will be. You betcha.
And there may well end up being more of them.
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When railguns go operational, a ship that generates 80MW of electricity would be the perfect home for it. Whatever follows, it will almost certainly retain the "all electric" power system. I don't know if they will go through the expense of removing the AGS guns on these 3 ships to do this but any follow on will probably be designed around railguns (and maybe lasers for self defense).
Regarding stealth, I would think the whole issue of applying stealth to ships is driven by budget. It would be economically impossible to replace all classes of ships at one time. CVN's on the other hand use distance and sheer power to minimize direct exposure to enemy fire so I doubt if we will see a stealth carrier.
Regarding stealth, I would think the whole issue of applying stealth to ships is driven by budget. It would be economically impossible to replace all classes of ships at one time. CVN's on the other hand use distance and sheer power to minimize direct exposure to enemy fire so I doubt if we will see a stealth carrier.
Jeff, my confusion arises from the somewhat strange (but impressive) combination of design features and subsystems, as well as cost and limited production run of the Zumwalt class, which altogether creates a sense that certain of its missions could have been better and more affordably taken up by a different ship design.
It goes without saying that the role of the ship on paper will be as a large multi role surface combatant with an emphasis on fire support.
It is only once the potential concept of operations of the ship is looked at when compared with other potential alternatives that could have been developed, that the confusion arises.