Modern Main Battle Tanks ( MBT )

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Again, Why would you put an air conditioner on a unmanned turret? the crew is in the hull which in these is already longer.
As for tools and and equipment I could buy,extra ammo in the turret is already done by T90. but still why would the turret it be larger?
Compare the hulls for a second. The T90 hull has 6 road wheels same as the T72, the renders you posted have 7 thee details of the T90 and hull and these renders are very similar and Russian MBT's generally use evolutions of their predecessors hulls so this means that the hull has been extended.
The turret face is on about the same line as the second road wheel about the same for both the 90 and T72 now on the latest T90 the turret would end about at the same point as the sixth road wheel with a small flying extension. In these renders the turret ends at the end of the seventh. the turret is however supposed to be unmanned no no crew compartment just the autoloader, magazines for the ridiculous machineguns. and probably all the equipment already in the latest T90. being generous the Turret with the Dakka Dakka Yak-B and Chaingun on the sides would still only need to be as large as the T90's turret as space that would have been crew space would be magazines for the ridiculous guns.
 

Bose

New Member
Again, Why would you put an air conditioner on a unmanned turret? the crew is in the hull which in these is already longer.
As for tools and and equipment I could buy,extra ammo in the turret is already done by T90. but still why would the turret it be larger?
A/c is anyway channelized through pipes and ducts to the compartments so installation place is of lower significance except for consideration of battle damage. They might retain the a/c installation on the turret or maybe they have found a better place? I dont know.

In Indian forums we see lot of keyboard warriors and tank designers bitching about lack of internal volume inside crew compartment (turret basket) as the reason why Indian T-90s did not come fitted with a/c.

Compare the hulls for a second. The T90 hull has 6 road wheels same as the T72, the renders you posted have 7 thee details of the T90 and hull and these renders are very similar and Russian MBT's generally use evolutions of their predecessors hulls so this means that the hull has been extended.
That is because the model shown have got 7 wheels. There definitely is hull extension but we shouldn't mistake it by looking at the western MBT models. Plz refer below post.

The turret face is on about the same line as the second road wheel about the same for both the 90 and T72 now on the latest T90 the turret would end about at the same point as the sixth road wheel with a small flying extension. In these renders the turret ends at the end of the seventh. the turret is however supposed to be unmanned no no crew compartment just the autoloader, magazines for the ridiculous machineguns. and probably all the equipment already in the latest T90. being generous the Turret with the Dakka Dakka Yak-B and Chaingun on the sides would still only need to be as large as the T90's turret as space that would have been crew space would be magazines for the ridiculous guns.
I will explain it differently with the help of T-55M6 upgrade which is the most comprehensive upgrade proposed for the T-55.

But two points to be noted for Armata family based tank in terms of external dimension are
1) Front crew compartment
2) New engine (X-engine)

Compare the two T-55 upgrades and the most noticeable difference is (ignore turret, cannon and everything else) the hull extension with 6 wheels compared to the 5 on a standard T-55. The hull extension was mainly for improved armor coverage for the front hull which also increased internal space. Without that hull extension it was impossible to install new armor and provide uniform armor thickness for the front hull. One can make out that difference clearly from the space in front of drivers hatch. Also look lower below we can see the 6th wheel placement.

a0109941_498af0472a6b6.jpg


a0109941_498af044cb039.jpg


T55_41.jpg


T55_40.jpg


I will keep it short, so...

What I infer from the model displayed is that Armata have similar hull extension in the front so as to give better armor coverage for the 3-man crew compartment. There might also be slightly increased hull length to accommodate the new 12-cilinder X-engine. Deducing the probable design solution for Armata by basing it on the western MBTs will mostly give wrong conclusion.
 

aksha

Captain
Pressure on the Ground
Arjun Mk-2 offers enhanced firepower, but it’s too heavy to go where the Army wants it


BM2S3KJ.jpg

After more than three decades of development, India’s Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) has literally emerged like a phoenix from the ashes, surprising even its most sceptical observers. Last year, the Arjun outgunned the Indian army’s T-72 and T-90 MBT’s, when trials were conducted with the respective units putting up their best tanks and personnel.

FORCE visited the Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE) for an exclusive insight into the programme. We learnt that while the Arjun Mk-2 is substantially improved and more capable than the Arjun Mk-1; it is too heavy, limiting areas where it can be deployed by the Army. And that renders it unsuitable for the army’s operational requirements for a Main Battle Tank (MBT). According to P Sivakumar, Director CVRDE, “the weight of the Arjun prevents it from being deployed in all the areas required by the Army”.

Keeping this in mind, the Arjun Mk-2’s improved performance seems to have put the Army in a spot. What does one do with a tank that is fast, can shoot accurately on the move and is relatively well protected but is too heavy to be deployed in the deserts near the Pakistan border as a replacement for the T-72 or T-90? Paradoxically, while the tank itself has demonstrated high speed and mobility, its weight precludes it from being able to operate anywhere the army wants it to. The Arjun Mk-2 will weigh around 67 tonnes and this fatally limits the tank’s operational effectiveness for the Indian Army.

The tank is too heavy to be deployed across the border with Pakistan. It is unable to effectively traverse terrain filled with natural and/or artificial obstacles. Or areas criss-crossed with rivers and canals. That rules out most places in Rajasthan, Punjab and the mountainous terrain of the J&K sector.
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SamuraiBlue

Captain
Here is an interesting vid of the type 10 MBT although a bit corny.


According to the vid this MBT is the first to maintain target and fire rounds while doing a slalom maneuver going zig zag. You can see how accurate the aiming is around 5:03 when the tank is doing a zig zag maneuver while the main gun is pointing at the camera at all time. This was made possible by applying active suspension and a 360 degree monitoring camera.
 

aksha

Captain
Arjun Mk.II Tank Clears All Army Trials, Service Next Year

February 2, 2015: The Arjun Mk.II main battle tank has cleared all user trials with the Indian Army successfully and now awaits a maintenance evaluation by the Army and, crucially, a detailed evaluation by the Director General of Quality Assurance (DGQA). The Army has on order 118 tanks that will begin delivery once these two final evaluation processes are complete, likely by mid-2015. The Phase IV user trials demonstrated trench crossing and step climbing capabilities of the Mk.II tank starting in September 2014. Last year, dynamic trials of 120 mm penetration-cum-blast (PCB) ammunition for MBT Arjun Mk II were conducted successfully at PXE, Chandipur.
The Arjun Mk.II will conceivably begin entering service in 2016. With the already inducted fleet of 124 Arjun Mk.I tanks in two regiments in Rajasthan, the Army will be set to operate a total of four Arjun regiments. But the good news for the Arjun programme potentially ends right here. As SP's reported earlier, there are unlikely to be further orders for the Arjun tank of any type. The total number (242 tanks) on order is far from good news: The DRDO has said that any order below 500 tanks (in a mix of Mk.I and Mk.II) makes Project Arjun a dead loss. This is precisely what it is likely to be, which is why products based on the Arjun chassis (bridge-layer tank, self-propelled artillery) or Arjun turret (Tank-X) are being pushed too. But for the Arjun tank itself, the fresh order could be a death knell. The Army is keen that the DRDO focuses on a futuristic main battle tank. Of couse, this Army-DRDO conversation continues at a time when the very efficacy of armoured land force is being questioned at the macro war-fighting level in the region.

The Army has shown markedly more confidence in the Arjun Mk.II than it did in the original tank. At Defexpo last year, the Arjun Mk.II was on public display for the first time, following its participation in the Republic Day Parade. It underwent two more critical trial phases supervised by the Indian Army, pertaining to mobility in water (medium fording), mobility across obstacles, missile firing and fresh regular ammunition firing routines. These rounds were undertaken with during the summer months, with a handful of test points completed by November last year, with final reports being compiled and completed in January 2015. Full user trials began in May 2012. The Indian Army had indented for 124 of the Mk.2 for two tank regiments, but has now committed to inducting 118 tanks. The DRDO had been pushing for an order of at least 300 Arjun Mk.IIs to shore up the programme and speed up production at the Heavy Vehicles Factory adjoining the CVRDE in Avadi. It's almost certain that won't happen. The Army simply has no more armoured appetite for more tanks.

Sadly, the economics of the programme lie in tatters. In 2008, the DRDO wrote to the MoD saying, "The DRDO is working on the development of the futuristic Mark II MBT with suitable technological upgrades, which can be introduced later after completion of production of at least 500 tanks of the present version. DRDO has tacit knowledge in this area of Combat Vehicle Engineering and possesses full competence in developing futuristic combat vehicles. Any battle tank has a service life of 30 years and goes through technology up gradation progressively. Since MBT-Arjun is an indigenous tank it is all the more easier to bring upgrades and in our opinion the MBT-Arjun will be a viable platform for the futuristic use as well."

For the Army, its internal planning compulsions have weighed heavy. It has refused to comply with an additional order, given that its resources had been committed to purchasing more T-90S Bhishma tanks from Russia for license production at Avadi. What the DRDO has managed in the meanwhile is to meet the Army's requirements with the Arjun Mk.II. The tank now incorporates enhanced firepower with Automated Target Tracking and greater variety of ammunition including gun-fired anti-tank missile, thermobaric ammunition; enhanced protection that include Explosive Reactive Armor, laser warning and countermeasure System, a mine plough, a remotely operable anti-aircraft weapon, a roof mounted driving seat; advanced land navigation system and enhanced night vision capabilities. As things turn out, the main missile to be fired from the 120mm main gun may not be Israeli after all. Sources suggest a new weapon being developed at the ARDE may be the fit.

But for Project Arjun, the implications of the end of trials are greater. In 2008, the DRDO had also noted, "The major imported systems in the tank are the powerpack and gun control system from Germany and Delft-SAGEM gunner’s main sight from OIP Belgium. The percentage of import content is 60% in the first lot of 124 tanks to be productionised, which will be reduced to under 45% with the manufacture of first 200 tanks and under 30% with the manufacture of about 500 tanks." This indicates that the Arjun tank, ironically, remains largely a foreign product, both in terms of value as well as critical systems. This, despite the DRDO promising to totally turn the tables with greater order numbers.

Original problems with the Arjun Mk.I rose with the Mk.II too, though the capabilities of the new tank have silenced critics and test personnel. Weight was an issue with the Arjun Mk.II, significantly heavier than the Arjun Mk.I, though the DRDO has dispelled comparisons with the T-90S. "T-90S and MBT Arjun tanks are of different class. Both the tanks have their own special features. In MBT Arjun, we have more power to weight ratio, hydro-pneumatic suspension for better ride comfort and a stable platform to fire on the move, better quality class of Gun Control System and Fire Control System etc. Missile firing capability of Arjun was demonstrated. T-90S tank has missile firing capability and lower silhouette. Tanks of both the class are required by the Indian Army," the DRDO had said in 2008 during the big T-90S push.

On the DRDO's part, fighting for the programme will remain a priority, given the enormous skill investment it has taken to put the tank together and meet all of the Army's many demands. "Teething problems during the process of productionisation are inevitable. The process of TOT for the MBT will mature and stabilize only after 200 to 300 tanks have been actually produced by the production agency. Hence, we need to have patronage from the government and Army in terms of more orders for our indigenous MBT-Arjun. If the army does not place further orders for Arjun we cannot even amortize the infrastructural investments made by the government for its productionisation, thereby resulting in wasteful expenditure. The Army should place orders for additional 300 tanks before we can break even," said the DRDO six years ago in its most direct appeal to the government to intervene and force the Army to support the Arjun in a bigger manner. The DRDO believes Prime Minister Modi's 'Make in India' philosophy may help the Arjun programme get more aggressive orders from the customer, though the fact that the T-90S is license built in country goes against any perceived advantage in terms of economics. The DRDO still plans to revive its plans to push the Arjun project with the new government in order to amortize investment and perhaps allow for future versions of the tank.
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